Re: New unofficial document - oamp.pdf

["Joseph C. Bender" <jcbender@bendorius.com>]

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005, Mark Farquaad wrote:

> Hi Joseph Bender,
> 
> You are saying out loud what I am trying to convince you
> all of what is not a good aproach:
> 
> Spaghetti code *SUCKS* in this instance.
> If you want to set something good up, you want to
> sit down and think about what you want to do BEFORE
> you friggin start hacking!!!
> You *friggin* SPAGHETTI PROGRAMMERS!!!
> ;-)
> 
	Uh, again, hurling insults?  Not a good idea.  You also seem to 
think that I have some place in the OpenBSD community.  Other than knowing 
nick@ quite well, this is not the case.  I've contributed stuff when I 
can, but I will not claim to be the be-all and end-all authority.

That person's name is Theo.

> I'm trying to tell you to stop hacking and start thinking
> about the whole process from a bird's eye perspective,
> only for once... *pretty-please???*.
> 
	Who says that they are not?  
But you also have to consider that people will work on *for free* whatever 
they want to work on.  You can't make anyone do anything.

> This whole mess is because NOONE is thinking about
> this all and properly organizing (my opinion)!!!
> EVERYONE is just hacking along, not seeing beyond
> the tip of his nose, at least that's the current organization:
> Just work, don't think about what you work on, just
> do ANYTHING and it will surely be helpfull...
> *bullshit*!
> 
	This assumes two things.

That the situation is a mess.  You're the only one seemingly bent on 
upending the apple cart.

Secondly, again, that no-one is thinking about the organization.  I'd 
daresay that Nick has put quite a bit of time into thinking about what 
should go into the FAQ, along with conferring with the other devs.

Have you ever asked him, or anyone else for that matter, what needs to be 
written?  You might be surprised what answers you might get.

He's only one man.  He has also admitted that he's not going to write up 
something that he knows nothing about.

The BIG BIG point that you are missing is that if you see something that 
needs to be written or coded, WRITE IT.  If the lack of good IPSec 
documentation irks you WRITE SOME.  Then *submit it* to the lists and to 
the maintainers for review.  If they don't put it in, put it up on your 
own web-page and point people to it from time to time.  Eventually people 
will find it through google and mailing list searches.

Another point that I will re-state AGAIN is that no matter how pretty you 
make it for people to submit docs, if they have no inclination to do so, 
they won't.  "If you build it, they will come" only applies to bad Kevin 
Costner baseball movies.
 
> No. I don't want ANY privileges and I'm not whining!
> Where did you ever get that stupid idea?
> All I want is for you *hackers* to stop hacking for
> only one moment to put one little tiny ounce of thought
> into *organizing* what to hack on!! That's my whole point!
> Organize BEFORE you start hacking!!!
> 
	Again, you assume there is no organization here.  
But if it burns you up THAT badly, draft a documentation plan and post it.
There's no-one here stopping you.

But as you'd rather have pretty-pretty discussion boards first, I doubt 
this will happen.


> O.K.,
> I'll have to talk *programmer-speach* to ya all:
> I don't want to hack and improve the code of the
> current FAQ "programm".
> I want to write a new "engine", which will finally 
> produce a better FAQ "programm"!
> 
	Fuck this.  I understood your whining the first ten times.  Don't 
you dare be so damn condescending when you've proven yourself to be that 
damn clueless.


> Maybe I'll *shut up*, but I WILL NOT hack mindlessly!!!
> 
	No-one expects you to.  Start somewhere and produce something 
tangible, or produce nothing at all.

Additionally, please trim your posts.


-- 

Signing off,

Joseph C. Bender
<jcbender@bendorius.com>