Re2: Easy Installs

[Pablo Luis Bucich <pbucic@mecon.ar>]

Talking as an obsd user, I frequently see this kind of complaints, such
'I want xxx  be easiest, and you say
> "Hey, we know that we're better than you are, glad that you took the 
> time to figure it out, so now f*** off!" '

	1) obsd team obviously have a limited resources
	2) If I must choose between 'easy' things and the
	   unique security and stability features that I've founded
	   at obsd, I choose the second
	3) Linux is a good example of 'easy things' and many os bugs
	   (but who cares about security if there are nice installers)
	4) I'm currently trying to work in a X interface to do obsd
	   administration, but it's a long task (If you want to do well)
	   and I'm a C-developer & sysadmin too, so, I know the time 
	   and resources involved in such tasks (and it isn't short)
	5) If a project is correctly managed, not any user requirement is
	   implemented at once, instead, it's evaluated and CAN BE REJECTED
	6) life is not easy (windows is easy)
	7) learning how to use make is not a crime

Please, any complaint or death menace, send privately
Press <F34> for auto-complaint

On Fri, 2 Jul 1999, John M. Lockard wrote:

> On Thu, 1 Jul 1999, Julian R Fondren wrote:
> 
> > and of course, dpkg and rpm both use huge databases and have funky
> > dependency ideas like: "If my database says you don't have it - you don't
> > have it!" and "If my database says you have it - you have it!" whereas the
> > current ports system makes more intelligent decisions by actually checking
> > and seeing of the required file/library (not "package") is there.
> > 
> > My points are:
> >   * OpenBSD already has a better alternative to any of these others
> >   * OpenBSD doesn't have the manpower to adequatly maintain packages for
> >     all its supported platforms, nor would this in success return much
> >     for the effort.
> >   * If you are incapable of waiting a few minutes for your program to
> >     compile while you go about your buisness, maybe you shouldn't be using
> >     OpenBSD at all.
> 
> It is comments like this that many people are referring to when they
> talk about the condescending attitude that many in the OpenBSD group
> appear to take.  Almost an attitude like, "Hey, we know that we're
> better than you are, glad that you took the time to figure it out, so
> now f*** off!"
> 
> If I remember correctly, this whole thread started off as a discussion
> on how to make OpenBSD (as a whole) more palatible to those that aren't
> currently using it.
> 
> It's fine for you to tell one of your Sys Admins that if they aren't
> willing to wait, and can't figure it out, hit the road.  But, there are
> many users of systems, such as Linux, that aren't Sys Admins, and *are*
> use to being able to grab a package and install it without having to do
> a compile, or move binaries around, etc.
> 
> 
> >   * After finally finding and downloading a package, ``command -i
> >     package'' isn't much "easier" than ``make && make install''
> > 
> > 
> 

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