From tbechtel@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU Mon Aug 28 15:07:46 1989 Subject: mtv Who else saw the "New_order_ a True Story" on MTV last night (sunday) at about 11:30-Midnight PST? I only caught part of it because I found it when I was flipping channels. It was kinda funny because I was showing a friend of mine my Substance 1988 Video's just before we found that this was on and we got to watch most of them again :-) I saw parts of the Fine Time and Round and Round videos (which I haven't seen the full length of yet)....does anyone know if this is available to buy yet? From: Sonny Crockett Michael Alan Wertheim writes: >I have some hard-to-find New Order remixes: "Blue Monday" remixed by >Razormaid, "586" remixed by Razormaid, "The Perfect Kiss" remixed by Hot >Tracks, and "Evil Dust" remixed for the Funky Alternatives compilation. >Total playing time of all 4 remixes is about 30 minutes. Where did you get these remixes, Mike??? Are they on cd, lp, cassette, victrola, or what? >If you want a tape of these songs, send me a blank tape and a >self-addressed stamped envelope. You will be getting a tape from me in the next few days! From: Sonny Crockett Subject: NO & JD on CD One of these days (soon!) I'll post a complete Joy Division / New Order discography. However, before that, I'd just like to ask if anyone knows of any "weird" NO/JD stuff on compact disc. I'm collecting these two bands on cd, especially, and so far have the following stuff: NEW ORDER JOY DIVISION Movement Unknown Pleasures Power Corruption & Lies Closer Low-life Substance Brotherhood Substance Peel Sessions (both) Technique Atmosphere / She's Lost Control (cd-single) Peel Sessions (both) Short Circuit -- Live at the Electric Circus (JD does Blue Monday 1988 cd-single (5") "At a Later Date") (UK and Canadian -- Canadian has "Touched by the Hand of God") Fine Time cd-single (5") (UK and canadian -- Canadian has "Fine line" (f-t instrumental) Round & remix cd-single (UK and Canadian 5" as well as UK 3") Facd 193 ("Touched by the Hand of God", Confusion '87 dub, and "Temptation" (original) FACTUS 8 (1981 - 1982 mini-album) "Salvation" movie soundtrack -- has four original New Order instrumentals plus another version of "Touched" So, what's missing, here? I know that the following things exist, although I don't have them: Fine Time (3" cd-single) UK "Something Wild" soundtrack (has "Temptation") "Pretty in Pink" soundtrack (has "Shellshock") True Faith 5" cd-video (three mixes of T F plus a CDV track) True Faith 5" promo cd-single (three T F mixes) From: JOEL%eny.prime.com@RELAY.CS.NET Subject: Re: NO & JD on CD The Canadian release of The JD Atmosphere CD has these 4 tracks on it: Atmosphere She's Lost Control The Only Mistake Transmission (Live) From mike_m@apollo.com Mon Aug 28 16:21:24 1989 Subject: Shellshock (was NO & JD on CD) > So, what's missing, here? I know that the following things exist, >although I don't have them: ... >"Pretty in Pink" soundtrack (has "Shellshock") Just wanted to add for others collecting, there are at least three versions of "Shellshock" around. The PiP version has another verse of lyrics that isn't on the 'Substance' version (where did this version appear first? is it U.K. only? I can't find it on a U.S. release). Both are nearly the same length. There is also a 12" single on A&M (U.S.) with "Shellshock" as the A-side and "Thieves Like Us" as the B-side. Here, "Shellshock" is over three minutes longer (9.41) and has the same extra verse as the PiP version (plus lots of extra beats, etc.), but "TLU" is the same as the one on "Substance". Other NO on soundtracks includes the ST to 'Bright Lights, Big City', I believe - "True Faith". Bruce & Ed - thanks for the lyrics. They were very much appreciated. Anyone have other NO lyrics? - mike Here's my review of the New Order portion of the show I saw at Great Woods, Mansfield, MA on 7/10/89. New Order (9:40-11:00) 13 songs --------- Round and Round Dream Attack Ceremony a new song from Technique - probably Mr Disco Every Little Counts True Faith 1963 Vanishing Point Temptation The Perfect Kiss (long version) Bizarre Love Triangle (LP version) Blue Monday -----|__ encore Fine Time -----| ... (skip favorable reviews of Cubes & PiL) New Order: a bit of a letdown after the first two bands. I knew what to expect from them going in - very little stage presence - but they did not play particularly well either. I think a big problem was the mixing. The guitar was almost always too low in the mix, like in "Dream Attack". Often the important keyboard parts were also inaudible, like near the end of "Perfect Kiss". Peter Hook looked like he was the only one who was interested in the audience, but I don't think he was too happy about being tackled during "Blue Monday" by a fan. The better tracks, for the most part, were the older ones (pre-'Technique'). Songs off 'Technique' were poor and were shown to be of very little substance. Exceptions to this were "Fine Time" and "Vanishing Point", both of which I thought had a little more zip than the other new songs they played. "Ceremony" gave me a little hope that there might be some bright spots. (I think they were at their best when playing songs that had Gillian come out & play guitar - the straight rockers.) The best song of the night was undoubtedly "Temptation". In fact, it was one of the few songs in which Bernard showed some emotion, along with "Bizarre Love Triangle". I was pleasantly surprised that they played "Every Little Counts". So, rating - performance: C (zero stage presence, poor job on new songs but good job on old ones); sound: D+. Any comments? Regarding 'Technique', for some reason it's turned out to be one of those albums of which I can't remember the names of all the tracks. I like several songs a lot, but I also hate several others equally as much. Oh well. - mike (watch this space...) Subject: Substance (NO) differences - U.S. vs. U.K. A while ago, Jim Randell at HP in Bristol, UK (don't know if he's on this list or not) sent me a list of the UK Substance cassette. Note the differences between it and the US version - in particular, the extra tracks on Tape 2 that are not on the second CD in the US (starred): ================= Substance 1 (Tape 1, Side 1) ceremony everything's gone green temptation blue monday confusion thieves like us Substance 2 (Tape 1, Side 2) perfect kiss subculture shellshock state of the nation bizzare love triangle true faith Substance 3 (Tape 2, Side 1) in a lonely place procession cries and whispers *** mesh hurt the beach confused instrumental lonesome tonight murder thieves like us instrumental Substance 4 (Tape 2, Side 2) kiss of death dubvulture *** shellcock *** shame of the nation bizzare dub triangle *** 1963 ================= Does this also mean that the version of "Mesh" on the UK cassette IS the same as the one on FACTUS 8, especially since the UK cassette includes both "Mesh" and "Cries and Whispers"? (recalling your mail of about a month ago, Bruce) - mike From: england@eva.slu.se (Robert A. England) Subject: Re: Joy Division / New Order >>Has anyone seen JOY DIVISION live? I suppose this goes out to people reading >>this who lived in Europe and England at the time. What were they like on stage? >>I envy thee greatly. I'm sorry, but I must gloat (and be proud), I saw Joy Division live at the Lyceum, The Strand, London, sometime in 1980 or 1981. I remember I was really young (16-17) and, live music being my only love at the time, it was a hair-tearing decision between going to see either Orchestral Manoevres in the Dark (I think they had just released their first LP) or Joy Division; they were playing on the same night, you see. Anyway, the music press were going apeshit over JD and their atmospheric gigs (to say the least! it was blood-curdling, spine-electrifying, mesmerising) so that swayed the decision (plus in those days hungry-eyed OMD were playing every other week in London!). The Lyceum had that unforgettable mood that was so prevalent in the post-punk era, when music had a raw, powerful darkness that smeared itself all over the walls of the venue. We were in the years following the revolution and anything was possible. A collection of punks & rastafarians were in force, sprawled over the floors or hangin' out in dark corners, as well as the newest figures, the long-macintoshed 'industrial' types, later the stalwarts of JD gigs. There were tickets still for sale at the door, but there was certainly enough of a crowd to make the mood. There were 2 groups in support, one was definitely Killing Joke, I remember that because they did an incredible set, climaxing with 'Change', (IMHO the song of the year on the merits that it united people with completely different tastes in music to agree it was magnificent). I can't remember the other support band except it was a Factory band because it was a Factory night. I don't remember either the entrance of JD - suddenly they were on stage - and their bass and guitar were making that menacing drone, the crowd was getting increasingly worked up. Ian Curtis was without doubt the major presence, but the rest of the lads certainly contributed to the sense of occasion, like there was some dark ritual to be celebrated, and they were supporting the High Priest. Watching Ian move for the first time after standing stock still for the first verses, you just had to laugh. He burst into life like he was a puppet and some psychopath was pulling his strings. This sent the mob into a frenzy of apocalyptic dance like I'd never seen before. The only songs that were memorable to me were 'She's Lost Control', 'Transmission' (because those were the only ones I'd heard at the time) and, believe it or not, 'Atrocity Exhibition' because it was so terrifying. I say believe it or not because it was only released later on 'Closer' whilst at that time only 'Unknown Pleasures' was out. I became an instant Joy Division convert, for life. From mike_m@apollo.com Mon Aug 28 16:56:31 1989 Subject: The Perfect Kiss I think it's kind of odd that the verse that seems most to indicate that this song is related to Ian was chopped out of the Low-Life version - of course, I'm referring to the part that concludes "...the perfect kiss is the kiss of death". Is there some story behind this? Low-Life is only 40 minutes long, and another four (or fewer) minutes of "Perfect Kiss" would surely have fit on the album (since the 12" version is twice as long as the album version). In fact, just what ARE the words to that mysterious 4-line verse? I can't make them all out. Help? - mike From Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Mon Aug 28 20:03:52 1989 Subject: NO Live I saw the show at Great Woods (Mansfield, MA) as well. This was my first New Order concert, as I am a recent convert, but I had heard about their lack of stage presence. So, I wasn't disappointed that they were none-too-animated. My thoughts on the show: First of all, Great Woods is famous for having poor acoustics. They added those wooden panels to the ceiling to try to help, but it hasn't done much. Typically, reviews in the Boston Globe cite poor sound at the start of shows, which tend to improve as the sound dude improves the mix as the show progresses. I find that if you are on the lawn, as I was for NO, the amphitheater acts as a speaker horn, and the sound tends to be better. Just an opinion. Considering what I had heard about their concerts, I was quite happy with the show. Although they don't move around much, they still seem to have a lot of emotion for such an electronic band. And, when they did my favorite, "Bizarre Love Triangle", they really seemed to be jamming. I couldn't really see what happened when Peter apparently got tackled. A friend and I were joking that he got too animated for the rest of the band, and a roadie came out to restrain him. And when Bernard was showing emotion on "BLT", it looked like he might have been doubled over with a cramp. I loved the show. (If you can't have a sense of humor about your favorite bands, who can you joke about?) From arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com Mon Aug 28 21:56:16 1989 Subject: Production Credits Hi again, Enjoy the lyrics...maybe someone can put together a New Order package... BTW: There's a lyric book (the English and Italian one) for JD which also contains a single. The single has the flexi songs plus one called "You're No Good for Me" (a cover?). There's also a Cure book floating around - I've heard that from the Cure newsgroup. I found it at Rough Trade Records in London but I think I've seen it in the states too... Where else have New Order (JD too) appeared? I know Peter Hook is creditted with producing one song on the Stone Roses CD (S.R. are from NYC I think). From mw22+@andrew.cmu.edu Mon Aug 28 21:59:18 1989 Subject: Re: remixes The Razormaid remixes of "Blue Monday" and "586" come from the Razormaid CDs "Class X Volume 1" and "Class X Volume 2". Both are compilations of remixes of early-eighties new-wave songs. The Hot Tracks remix of "The Perfect Kiss" comes from a double 12-inch that also contains "Would I Lie to You" by the Eurythmics, "Be Near Me" by ABC, and two Prince remixes. Razormaid and Hot Tracks are domestic labels that sell only to club DJs. The "Evil Dust" remix is from an import CD called "Funky Alternatives" and is also available on vinyl. From mw22+@andrew.cmu.edu Tue Aug 29 00:13:12 1989 Subject: Re: remixes More about those remixes -- If you already have the 12-inch singles of "Blue Monday" and "Perfect Kiss", you won't be surprised much by the remixes of those songs, as most of the material used in the Razormaid remixes is also used on the B-sides of these 12-inch singles. From: Mike Machnik Subject: Quotes For those without the book "An Ideal for Living: An (sic) History of Joy Division", here are the quotes that appear on the back cover: ================================================================ "We don't want to influence people. We don't want people to know what we think. People think the lyrics are the guiding force, but we like to think that we influence Ian as much as he influences us; that if we stopped playing, Ian would never write again." - Peter Hook, July 1979. "Well, we're into music really, not self-publicity." - Bernard, March 1982. "People come up and say, 'Please explain the lyrics.' If you do that you just totally break the song up. You're taking it out of context." - Steve Morris, March 1982. "Then I asked Ian would he leave Warsaw, cuz he and I had become pretty good mates, and join The Panik. So he came for an 'audition', and didn't tell Warsaw. But his voice didn't fit in cuz we were idiots and wanted really fast, loud lyrics and all that stuff. So he said, 'Well, I might as well go back to Warsaw.'" - Steve Brotherdale, April 1982. "We're not fascists...Maybe a few thousand people believe that, but we are not interested in politics...I have never been interested in politics." - Bernard, May 1981. "I'm afraid we're just normal, really." - Gillian Gilbert, June 1982. "See, the ideal thing for a band is to stay unknown and let everybody discover you years later. That is the ideal...If they do become big, they will have sacked me." - Rob Gretton, manager, March 1979. "I think the best reaction you can get (from an audience) is really a hostile one. Anyone can clap. We don't judge whether Joy Division are successful by whether the records sell, or not, or by the number of people who come to see us. We judge whether Joy Division are successful by whether the songs we write are the songs we want to write." - Bernard, 1979. "Put it this way: we do it for ourselves, but we hope other people will still like it." - Ian Curtis, 1979. ================================================================ Other quotes: Regarding the band's choice of the name Warsaw - chosen the night the band was scheduled to appear as The Stiff Kittens: Warsaw was chosen "simply because it is a nothing sort of name. We didn't wish to be called 'the' somebody" - Bernard, Oct 78. Why the name change to Joy Division: ...as they were told by one of the major London booking agencies, a band called Warsaw would have difficulty getting gigs in the capital because of their similarity of name with Warsaw Pakt [a London-based group who had already released an album]...after some discussion, they chose Joy Division, the name coming from a lurid novel of sado-masochism in German concentration camps entitled 'The House of Dolls'. The book also contributed a (somewhat censored) verse for the song "No Love Lost". The "joy divisions" were those which housed prostitutes and women kept alive for the pleasure of the officers of the camps. The irony, if not the political implication, was obvious. "Ian Curtis says he writes the lyrics to an imaginary film. The purpose of this surrealistic montage is not to convey a message, but to arouse strange feelings." - Mary Harron, Melody Maker, Sep 29, 1979. Why the name New Order: ...the band's official story is that Rob Gretton had spotted a news article in the daily paper which spoke of the "New Order of Kampuchean Liberation", and the phrase "new order" caught his attention. The reality may be a mixture of this and the following (from NME, 28 Feb 81). The name New Order, which was obviously appropriate considering the circumstances, had been used before. As was pointed out earlier, the band were great Iggy Pop and the Stooges fans, and after guitarist Ron Asheton left the group he formed, in Los Angeles in 1975, a band called The New Order whose 1977 album sleeve contained a lot of Nazi paraphernalia. It is unlikely to the point of improbability that Joy Division were unaware of both the group and their album. Though other names were put forth as possibilities (many as jokes: "Stevie and the JDs" [Morris was handling much of the vocals on the demo work - mike], "Sunshine Valley Dance Band", "The Eternal", etc.), the band kept returning to New Order. They realised that they would immediately be taken to task again as "Nazis", but decided that they liked the name and that was the only consideration... From arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com Tue Aug 29 17:19:52 1989 Subject: RE: Still >>Is "Still" a bootleg, or what? > No, it is an official Factory release (FAC 40)... One thing that Mike didn't point out. Initially "Still" was released with two covers. The common, grey cardboard and the cloth-covered binder. Unfortunately I bought the binder - way back when. Can't wait for the CD. From mike_m@apollo.com Tue Aug 29 14:16:05 1989 Subject: Re: Still >Is "Still" a bootleg, or what? No, it is an official Factory release (FAC 40), released October 8, 1981. It consists of two records - the first record included tracks that were, for the most part, previously unreleased (or hard to find), and the second record was a live recording of Joy Division's final concert. I believe it was not released in the US. I bought it used a while back. The track listing is: (lyrics already posted by Ed) Record One SIDE ONE Exercise One (Unknown Pleasures sessions) Ice Age (recorded Oct/Nov 79, from same sessions as Dead Souls [see side two]) Sound of Music (recorded Jan/Mar 80) Glass (from FAC 2 - A Factory Sample; rec. Oct 11, 1978; the other track on the double 7" EP was Digital) The Only Mistake (Unknown Pleasures sessions) SIDE TWO Walked In Line (Unknown Pleasures sessions) The Kill (Unknown Pleasures sessions) Something Must Break ("Transmission" sessions) Dead Souls (from Licht und Blindheit, a rare French 7" that also included Atmosphere - released Mar 80, recorded Oct/Nov 79) Sister Ray (live - The Moonlight Club, April 2, 1980; remake of Velvet Underground song) Record Two - Live concert at Birmingham University, May 2, 1980 SIDE THREE Ceremony (beginning sounds slightly cut off compared to New Order version; first and last time this song was played live by Joy Division) Shadowplay A Means To An End Passover New Dawn Fades Twenty Four Hours (not listed on the jacket) SIDE FOUR Transmission Disorder Isolation Decades (Ian stumbled off stage right after finishing the vocals but the band continued the song; he was able to return for the next song, the encore) Digital (encore) Only two of the tracks from the first record were eventually released on Substance - Glass and Dead Souls. I don't recall whether the versions are the same on both releases; I think they are. Glass is on the Substance CD, not the LP (not sure about the cassette). The live tracks have never been released anywhere else. I think Still would make a great CD release. However, the sound quality is not up to that of any of the three albums that were released on disc, and I have heard that this is what is holding back a CD-release of Still. It is still (pun intended) a must-have for any new JD fans who want to know what the band sounded like live. From: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu (Bob Kusumoto) Subject: RE: Still I've talk to a few people about Still coming out on cd and the feeling at Factory is that the master is of such poor quality, it wasn't good enough to put on cd. That's the reason they put out Substance instead. From: Sonny Crockett Subject: New Order & Joy Division videos Anyone have any good videos they'd like to mention? I have all the "official" videos, namely: FACT 37 "Here Are The Young Men" (Joy Division) Locations: Manchester, Manchester, and Eindhoven (Neth.) Dead Souls Love Will Tear Us Apart Shadowplay Day of the Lords Digital Colony New Dawn Fades Autosuggestion Transmission Sound of Music She's Lost Control They Walked in Line I Remember Nothing TIME: 1 hr. QUALITY: Pretty bad. For an official video, this sucks. EVALUATION: Good to see Ian Curtis for real. Just great. I got this for $30, though. FACT 77 "Taras Shevchenko" (New Order) Location: New York City, 18 November 1981 Chosen Time Dreams Never End Everything's Gone Green Truth Senses Procession Ceremony Denial Temptation TIME: 53 min. QUALITY: Good to very good. Sound can be a little bad at times, but I think that is due to the bad mixing at the show, not the recording itself. Worth the $25. EVALUATION: I like this a lot. Good early NO. FACT 177 "Pumped Full of Drugs" (New Order) Location: Tokyo, 2 May 1985 Confusion Love Vigilantes We All Stand As It Is When It Was Subculture Face Up Sunrise This Time of Night Blue Monday TIME: doesn't say -- around 90 min, I think QUALITY: Best of the bunch. Sound is EXCELLENT. Picture is very good. EVALUATION: My fave. Best songs, good camera angles, nice mix. FACTUS 225 "Substance 1989" (New Order) Location: studio Confusion Perfect Kiss Shellshock Bizarre Love Triangle True Faith Touched By The Hand Of God Blue Monday 1988 TIME: 40 min. QUALITY: MTV. EVALUATION: This is a collection of the commercial videos of these songs. Not bad, but not great. Half are boring, a couple are interesting, and one or two are pretty funny ("Touched" has the band masquerading as a heavy metal group, complete with long hair, leather, and posturing). For $16, it's a fair deal. plus: one bootleg NEW ORDER LIVE IN MINN. 1983 Location: Minneapolis, 1983?? Your Silent Face Procession Ultraviolence Thieves Like Us Truth In A Lonely Place I C B Confusion Everything's Gone Green Temptation TIME: I dunno. Long. QUALITY: Shitty. We watched it on my friend's $200 VCR, and there were problems: picture was awful, and sound even worse. Then we tried my roommate's $600 4-head, stereo VCR. Picture actaully got beyond average, but the sound was the pits. Nice to hear "Ultraviolence" (one of my faves), but other than that, it was NOT worth $25. From jstout@atc.boeing.com Wed Aug 30 12:20:07 1989 Subject: Re: The Perfect Kiss > I think it's kind of odd that the verse that seems most to > indicate that this song is related to Ian was chopped out of > the Low-Life version - of course, I'm referring to the part > that concludes "...the perfect kiss is the kiss of death". > [...] > In fact, just what ARE the words to that mysterious 4-line > verse? I can't make them all out. Help? Here's what I've got (uncertain and missing parts in []'s): When you are alone at night [...] you suffer all the things that you believe are right If you give it all away You throw away your only chance [to be here] today [Damn if I ...] [...] another broken heart in a land of need My friend [sucks his final] breath Now I know the perfect kiss is the kiss of death Anyone want to fill in the rest? From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 30-Aug-1989 1323) Subject: RE: New Order & Joy Division videos >Anyone have any good videos they'd like to mention? I have all the >"official" videos, namely: >FACT 37 "Here Are The Young Men" (Joy Division) >Locations: Manchester, Manchester, and Eindhoven (Neth.) : : >Sound of Music >She's Lost Control >They Walked in Line >I Remember Nothing >TIME: 1 hr. >QUALITY: Pretty bad. For an official video, this sucks. >EVALUATION: Good to see Ian Curtis for real. Just great. I got >this for $30, though. You forgot one thing (that's on my viddy anyway), the promo video of "Love Will Tear Us Apart" is at the end of the video. The concert footage is from 4 different shows. Some of the shows are better than the other ones but all in all the quality is poor. From: Sonny Crockett Subject: songs within songs Has anyone noticed that some of the instrumental parts from one New Order song will become the melodies of future songs? Check out "Leave Me Alone" from Power, Corruption, & Lies. The melody is blatantly that found as a guitar part in the middle of "Procession". On the 12" version of "Shellshock", there is a guitar part which is almost exactly the guitar part to "Don't Do It" (Fine Time b-side). I know there are other examples, but I can't think of the rest right now. Help? From arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com Mon Sep 4 12:48:08 1989 Subject: RE: songs within songs Bruce, The stuff you mention is always documented by reviewers. Like an early "copy" of "BLUE MONDAY" showing up on PC & Lies (I forget the song though). What I like is the NO song which has a small snippet of "Love Will Tear Us Apart" on it. Its either "Way of Life" or "Every Little Counts" from BROTHERHOOD. From: Sonny Crockett As far as I know, these have NOT been released for retail sale. I was at a record store the other day looking through their weird import videos (and they had a LOT), hoping there was some New Order or Joy Division which they had that I didn't. No such luck -- only "Pumped Full of Drugs", "Taras Shevchenko", "Here Are the Young Men", and "Substance 1989". Oh well. From: Peter Yung Chang Subject: True Faith CD single Has anyone ever seen a CD version of the True Faith 12"? I have an imported single which includes the video (CDV), and it's Facdv 183, but it doesn't have the mixes I really want. Has anybody seen them around? Pittsburgh isn't exactly the greatest place for CDs, so I haven't been able to find it... From: Sonny Crockett Subject: Re: True Faith cd/cdv WHAT?!?!?!?!?!? You have this cd-video?!?!? AAAAAAARRRRGHHHHHH!!! Where did you get it? I just paid a guy in England $100 to send me a copy because NO ONE in the US or Canada seemed to be able to find it for me. Went to every record store in Chicago, several in New York and Boston, and posted to nm-list, rec.music.misc, alt.rock-n-roll, and rec.music.cd about two months ago and offered a $100 finder's fee, and the only person who could come up with one had to go to a record store in London that deals directly with Factory. What a mess. Anyway, while I was looking for this cd, I got info on the (apparently) only other extant True Faith cd. Here's what I found out: Title: True Faith Artist: New Order United States, QWEST Records: PROCD2899 5" Promo CD Single, 3 Tracks, 17 Minutes, 26 Seconds 1987 blue flower picture on disc 1 4.04 True Faith, The Morning Sun Remix/Edit 2 4.10 True Faith, Album Edit 3 8.59 True Faith, The Morning Sun Extended Remix This seems to be what is on the 12", minus "1963. Good luck. If you find it, get two, and I will pay big bucks for the second one. bruce geryk | "Here I am in a house full of doors University of Chicago | with no exits" ge1r@tank.uchicago.edu | New Order, "Denial" From: Michael Alan Wertheim Subject: Re: True Faith cd/cdv >blue flower picture on disc > > 1 4.04 True Faith, The Morning Sun Remix/Edit > 2 4.10 True Faith, Album Edit > 3 8.59 True Faith, The Morning Sun Extended Remix > >This seems to be what is on the 12", minus "1963. Good luck. If you find it, >get two, and I will pay big bucks for the second one. The 12-inch also has the "Alternate Faith Dub", which has Gillian singing the main chorus. From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 08-Sep-1989 1130) Subject: Thieves Like Us/Murder 12"-ers White cover : Thieves like us Dark cover: Murder Has anyone ever worked out if the numbers on these 12"-ers have any significance? From: James Price Salsman Subject: Hardware Does anyone out there know... (1) NewOrder's favorite synth, samp, and seq equipment? (2) How much cash they have budgeted for various albums? (3) Anything at all about their production process? And in the subjective catigory: (4) Are they more or less "computerized" than Depeche Mode? The reason I ask this is that I have heard that while D.M. is strictly synth and slab/pick-up percussion, N.O. relies more on sequencing and less on performance ability. Any article pointers are welcome, too, providing I can dereference them. Better to post the relevant sections. From: Michael Alan Wertheim Subject: Run I just got "Run," the new New Order 12-inch. The A-side has the album version and an extended version of "Run." The B-side has two mixes of something called "MTO," which is an instrumental thing with no guitars. From: Michael Alan Wertheim Subject: Re: Run Run? RUN?? What were they thinkin'? I was sure "Dream Attack" would be next.... It was getting airplay all over the alternative stations I listen to. (Unless I missed the 12" for "Dream", which is always possible.) Thoughts, anyone? BTW: no one responded to the other person who asked this, so I'll try-- are the band still out on the road? I was hoping maybe they'd swing back to my area so I could get better seats this time. From: Michael Alan Wertheim Subject: True Faith screwup Has anyone noticed that on every version of True Faith, including the original Factory 12-inch, that the production people mangled the syllable "cer" in the phrase "a certain sense of liberty"? From: Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Subject: NO movie-only stuff? Is there a master list of stuff that hasn't appeared on any albums? I'm not talking about re-mixes, but songs like "Touched By the Hand of God", which is on the B-side of the "Bizarre Love Triangle" 12" I have, but which I have been told is only otherwise available on a soundtrack. Or is there not enough unique stuff to bother with a list? From: mike_m@apollo.com Subject: Re: NO movie-only stuff? >Is there a master list of stuff that hasn't appeared on any albums? I'm not >talking about re-mixes, but songs like "Touched By the Hand of God", which is >on the B-side of the "Bizarre Love Triangle" 12" I have, but which I have been >told is only otherwise available on a soundtrack. Don't you mean the B-side of the "Blue Monday 1988" 12"? My BLT 12" doesn't have TBTHoG on it. TBTHoG was done for a movie called Salvation! and the single version appears on the soundtrack, along with several other New Order instrumentals whose titles I can't recall. It's available as an import only in the U.S., and I have the CD. I can't think of anything else off-hand that I know about. There are tons of 12" singles, of course, but most of these ended up on Substance in one form or another. Has "Run" been released in the U.S.? I haven't seen it yet. From: Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: NO movie-only stuff? --- Carl Noseworthy wrote: I didn't know "Touched By the Hand of God" was the B-side of "Bizzare Love Triangle". I always thought it came off the "Salvation" soundtrack, and was recorded AFTER "BLT". Carl Noseworthy. --- end of quoted material --- OK, OK, I'm a bonehead. I meant it is the B-side of the "Blue Monday" 12" I have(It's not the commercial release with the concentric circles; it's a promo 12" from the radio station here. I've got the club mix of "Blue", then 2 mixes of "Touched". The commercial release, I believe, also has the album version of "Blue"; don't know which album, though (Substance or Power,...), so I don't know what the time frame is like. When did Salvation come out? Is there a 12" for BLT? I'd love to get different versions of it... From: Carl Noseworthy Subject: Re: NO movie-only stuff? I didn't know "Touched By the Hand of God" was the B-side of "Bizzare Love Triangle". I always thought it came off the "Salvation" soundtrack, and was recorded AFTER "BLT". From: Peter Yung Chang Subject: The Happy One Does anyone know if The Happy One was ever released as a single or something? It's the song on the Substance Video that they played between clips, and I like it a lot. Thanks. >TBTHoG was done for a movie called Salvation! and the single version >appears on the soundtrack, along with several other New Order >instrumentals whose titles I can't recall. It's available as an >import only in the U.S., and I have the CD. The New Order songs on 'Salvation!' are : 1) Salvation Theme 2) Let's Go 3) Sputnik 4) Skullcrusher The CD I have (Polygram - made in Canada) has TWO versions of TBTHoG. There is the single version, AND the 12" version. The copyright date is 1987,1988 so I guess Salvation! was put out a little while after Substance. From: Fleur Diana Dragan Subject: Joy Division 1) I have a original, signed copy of Ideal For Living, who wants it? 2) None of you know anything about Warsaw/Joy Division, do you? From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 03-Oct-1989 1137) >1) I have a original, signed copy of Ideal For Living, who wants it? What do you mean "who wants it"? How much? I've seen one in London (the 7" version) for about 60 pounds. I don't know the name or street of the record store but I know how to get there... >2) None of you know anything about Warsaw/Joy Division, do you? I know loads about JD/Warsaw! Start some JD talk please! From: neenan@osf.org (Paul Neenan) Subject: Bizzare Love Triangle... My messages have been bouncing back. I hope this get's through.... Does anyone know where the best version of this song is? I have it on Substance, but I don't really care for that particular remix. I believe it's a Shep-Petibone remix. A little too much 'discoey' for me. Is there a 12" with a better remix or is the original album version the best? Also, in this weeks Melody Maker, there is an article on New Order. I haven't read it yet, but if anyone's interested, I could post the interesting points (if any). Come to think of it, the date says Sept. 23rd, so I don't know if this is the most current issue around right now. From: Carl Noseworthy RUBBER MAIL! What's happening? Everything is bouncing everywhwhere else. RE: Bizarre Love Triangle I personally like the 'Bizarre Dub Triangle' on Substance. I have heard the single and album mixes, but in my opinion, these sound 'squat'. The song is too long to fit into 3 minutes of music. From: Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: Bizarre Love Triangle Well, at least the mail is getting to the list; I'm only getting bounces from certain addresses on the list. I like the mix on Substance, 'cause I think the album version ends too soon. It's my favorite song, and it's one of those songs that seem like there should be more verses or something, so I settle for extra choruses. No one ever answered: is there a 12" available with versions other than Substance/album/single mixes? From: Michael Alan Wertheim There is a commercial BLT 12-inch that has the following: 1) The mix on Substance 2) The mix on Brotherhood 3) An instrumental version similar to the Substance mix 4) State of the Nation There is also a radio-only promo 12-inch that was released when "Married to the Mob" came out. It has: 1) A shorter edit of the Substance mix 2) A shorter edit of the mix on Brotherhood (yes, shorter) Personally, though, my favorite is the mix that appears in the video. It's a hybrid of the Substance and Brotherhood versions. The worst version is the awful remix that appears on the "Married to the Mob" soundtrack. It's like the Substance mix with all the energy removed. Subject: origins of "Procession" Does anyone know for what song "Procession" was a b-side for? Also, if anyone out there has a NO concert bootleg and is willing to tape it for me (and get paid well to do it!), let me know. From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 16-Oct-1989 1258) Subject: Procession.... Hi, About 20 weeks ago someone asked where PROCESSION came from. It was the B-side to EVERYTHINGS GONE GREEN. I can provide more information about the early N.O. discography if desired. Hi, I'm trying to figure out the lyrics to two New Order songs: Mesh and 586. I know, 586 really isn't that tough, but there's a couple spots that I can't quite figure. If anyone has any ideas, I'd appreciate it. My dream is to be part of one of the first progressive dance bands here in this cow-soybean-and-corn-filled oasis. From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 16-Oct-1989 1658) Subject: RE: Procession.... >I'd love to see the discography; we've only gotten one for Joy Division so >far, and I'm not as interested in them. Have you got any lyrics to go with it? >Those seem to be pretty scarce as well. >Ciao, >Danno I'll try to bring my discography info...it only goes up until 84 or 85... as I'm only concerned with the early stuff...I'll post the JD stuff too... As for lyrics...geez, no pleasin' some people :-) I typed all the JD stuff in, someone else do the NO....actually I don't have the NO lyric book... anyone seen one? From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 24-Oct-1989 1218) Subject: JD/NO semi-discography Hi, Hopefully this will avoid the network potholes. Disclaimer: after starting I realized the scope of this and I can't finish it. Hopefully people will be willing to add to this... Joy Division --- -------- Singles: "An Ideal For Living" E.P. 7" June 1978 - Warsaw/No Love Lost/Leaders of Men/Failures Engima PSS 139 "An Ideal For Living" E.P. 12" October 1978 - Warsaw/No Love Lost/Leaders of Men/Failures Annonymous Records ANON1 "Transmission"/"Novelty" 7" September 1979 - Factory FAC 13 "Transmission"/"Novelty" 12" September 1980 - Factory FAC 13.12 "Atmosphere"/"Dead Souls" 7" March 1980 - Sordide Sentimentale 33002 "Komakino"/"Incubation"/"And Then Again" (flexidisc) Aprix 1980 Factory FAC 28 "Love Will Tear Us Apart"/"These Days"/"Love Will Tear Us Apart" (remix) 7"/12" May 1980 Factory FAC 23/23.12 "She's Lost Control" (version)/"Atmosphere" 12" (only) October 1980 Factory FACTUS 2 "Atmosphere"/"Transmission" (live in Manchester)/"Love Will Tear Us Apart" (remix) 5" CD single ? 1988 Factory ? ? Albums: "Unknown Pleasures" June 1979 Factory FACT 10 (LP/CD/Cass) "Closer" ? ? Factory FACT 25 (LP/CD/Cass) "Still" (double) October 1981 Factory FACT 40 (LP) (Additional special cloth bound edition also released) "Substance" ? 1988 Factory ? ? CD contains b-sides not included on LP (LP/CD/Cass) "Peel Sessions 1" 1987 Strange Fruit Records (LP/CD) "Peel Sessions 2" 1987 Strange Fruit Records (LP/CD) Samplers: "Short Circuit - Live at the Electric Circus" 10" LP June 1978 Virgin VCL 5003 "At a Later Date" also available on CD "Factory Sampler" (2x7" E.P.) December 1978 Factory FAC 2 "Digital"/"Glass" "Earcom 2: Contradiction" 12" October 1979 Fast FAST 9 "Auto-Suggestion"/"From Safety to Where...?" Videos: "Here Are the Young Men" FACT 37 very raw live footage but includes the "Love..." promo video New Order (through 1983 only...plus a few) --- ---- Singles: "Ceremony"/"In a Lonely Place" 7"/12" January 1981 Factory FAC 33 "Everything's Gone Green"/"Procession" 7" September 1981 Factory FAC 53 "Everything's Gone Green"/"Mesh"/"Cries and Whispers" 12" November 1981 Factory Benelux FBNL 8 "Temptation"/"Hurt" 7"/12" April 1982 Factory FAC 63 "Blue Monday"/"The Beach" 12" (only) March 1983 Factory FAC 73 "Confusion"/"Confusion Beats"/"Confusion Instrumental"/"Confusion Rough" 12" (only) September 1983 Factory FAC 93 "Thieves Like Us"/"Lonesome Tonight" 12" (only) March 1984 Factory FAC 103 (sorry but I can't even attempt the rest) Albums: "Movement" Novmember 1981 Factory FACT 50 (LP/CD/Cass) "1981-1982" November 1982 Factory FACTUS 8 "Power Corruption and Lies" March 1983 Factory FACT 75 (LP/CD/Cass) "Low-Life" ? ? ? ? ? (LP/CD/Cass) "Brotherhood" ? ? ? ? ? (LP/CD/Cass) "Substance" (double album) ? 1987 ? ? ? CD contains b-sides (two CD set) (LP/CD/Cass) "Technique" February 1989 ? ? ? (LP/CD/Cass) "Peel Sessions 1" 1987 Strange Fruit Records (LP/CD) "Peel Sessions 2" 1987 Strange Fruit Records (LP/CD) Videos: "A Factory Video" (compilation) FACT 56 "Ceremony"/"In a Lonely Place" "A Factory Outing" (compilation) FACT 71 "Everything's Gone Green"/"Truth" "Taras Chevchenko" FACT 77 (the first New York show at the "famed" Ukranian National Home) "Pumped Full of Drugs" ? ? (from Japan in 1983?) "Substance" (released in 1989, only contains 7 videos) From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 24-Oct-1989 1559) Subject: Brotherhood Hey, I just listened to Brotherhood (on CD no-less) and I just can't get over what a poor album it is. Good thing Technique is as good as it is or I probably wouldn't be listening to New Order anymore...there just aren't very many good songs on the whole album. I play the thing about once or twice a year, that's all I can stand! Anyone else feel this way or am I going to be flamed to death... From: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu (Bob Kusumoto) Subject: Re: Brotherhood/Warsaw stupid for paying $22? how about the prices around here, the first time I saw it, it was $35 (and I picked up it, "like wow, its a bootleg, right?...") then saw it later at wax trax for $30. I think you got lucky finding it for $22. btw, brotherhood is better than technique, but my personal fav is still low life. I hope I'm sending this to the right address... Ed sez: >I just listened to Brotherhood (on CD no-less) and I just can't get over what >a poor album it is. Good thing Technique is as good as it is or I probably >wouldn't be listening to New Order anymore...there just aren't very many good >songs on the whole album. I play the thing about once or twice a year, that's >all I can stand! Well, *I* disagree. Granted, "Brotherhood" is not "Power, Corruption, & Lies"; but it has some great songs on it ("As It Is When It Was" and "Every Little Counts" to name two). I think it's miles better than "Technique", which sounds like a collection of songs they didn't think were good enough to put on "Brotherhood." On the JD end of things, I picked up a CD of songs by Warsaw last week. It's about 40 minutes of music. I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it, since usually when I listen to "Substance" I find the Warsaw stuff on the average side. Has anybody else seen this CD, and was I an idiot to pay $22 for it? Liz P.S. - "Closer" made Rolling Stone's list of the to 100 albums of the 80s. Then again, this being Rolling Stone, so did Madonna.... From arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com Wed Oct 25 14:17:26 1989 Subject: Barney solo stuff Hey ho! Wait! Hold on! Is the Barney solo stuff out yet? What's it called again? I heard about it a while ago and it slipped my mind...does anyone have it? Is it any good? Etc? From arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com Wed Oct 25 14:33:41 1989 Subject: RE: Brotherhood/Warsaw Well nobody agrees with me but I'm glad I've stimulated some interest in the list again :-). >On the JD end of things, I picked up a CD of songs by Warsaw last >week. It's about 40 minutes of music. I was surprised at how much I >enjoyed it, since usually when I listen to "Substance" I find the >Warsaw stuff on the average side. Has anybody else seen this CD, and >was I an idiot to pay $22 for it? Oh, great! Where did you find it? I've tried Rebel Rebel Records and Midnight Records in NYC but both were out by the time I got there... The one I've "seen" is a bootleg called Warsaw...is your CD live or studio? BTW: I saw it advertised for $25 so you got a bargain... >P.S. - "Closer" made Rolling Stone's list of the to 100 albums of the '80s God, what is this with me...I prefer "Unknown Pleasures"! (But can't live without the last 3 songs on "Closer" From arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com Wed Oct 25 14:36:11 1989 Subject: RE: NO Conversation cd and Peel Sessions, for that matter The Peel Session with "586" is the more worthy one because it has two previously unavailable tracks "Turn the Heater On" and (oh, I forget!). One of the songs is kinda New Order reggae...I also like the differences between the album songs. The other Peel Session (dated 26-1-81) has four songs from CEREMONY. "Truth", "Senses", "I.C.B." and "Dreams Never End"...probably my four favorite songs off the album (and arguably THE four best on the album). They are a little more raw than the album versions... Danno, Did you notice if the JD Peel Sessions were on sale? I'm missing on on CD (have it on vinyl!) and would be glad to pick it up for that cheap! From arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com Wed Oct 25 14:50:41 1989 Subject: Peelies... C'mon Kevin, admit it, you just like those Factory portable CD holders! Ed From eboneste@ccm.bbn.com Wed Oct 25 12:05:29 1989 Bob sez: >stupid for paying $22? how about the prices around here, the first time I >saw it, it was $35 (and I picked up it, "like wow, its a bootleg, right?...") Is this really a bootleg??? Now that I think of it, it wouldn't surprise me; the cover is the same drawing used for "Unknown Pleasures." The store where I found it, though, doesn't usually carry bootlegs. (They used to carry all kinds of fun stuff, but then they became successful and started worrying about the feds.) >btw, brotherhood is better than technique, but my personal fav is still >low life. Low-life runs a close second to PC&L for me. Liz From kus3 Wed Oct 25 13:06:51 1989 Subject: Re: NO Conversation cd..... I've heard bad things about the interview discs in general, which is bad sound quality. Personally I think you should look for some interviews they did with various people (although its a bit harder to find now, when they were on tour earlier this year, you couldn't help but notice all this stuff around. Maybe bernard has some stuff to print now that he has a solo album out) for $7 though, it isn't too bad since I usually see them around the normal price of a cd or slightly more (we are talking about that sickly yellow picture interview disc right?) From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 25-Oct-1989 1524) Subject: RE: Brotherhood/Warsaw Keven, Never heard of this >Paul Haig / New Order single : The Only Truth >Any of the stuff that isn't on Substance (e.g. Cries and Whispers) Cries and Whispers IS on Substance but one of MESH and HURT aren't!!! >Live Material? Haven't seen any N.O. (bootleg) CD's around but there is the Warsaw one of JD floating about...that's all I've heard of. >And my personal favourite LP : >The LP version of the video of the Perfect Kiss. >(Its the same as the video, I'd kill for this one) Don't know about this one...I have the video but haven't compared it to anything on CD...An LP is a LONG PLAYING record. Therefore a single is not an LP! Even if it has extended mixes...unless the whole thing clocks in around 40+ minutes...or am I missing something? >(best LP's - Ceremony and Brotherhood) Do you mean Ceremony the bootleg (live album) or Ceremony the single? Because Ceremony the single isn't an LP...sorry to disillusion you...Ed From: neenan@osf.org (Paul Neenan) Subject: NO Conversation cd..... TRying this again......as a test.... Has anyone heard the interview on the New Order Conversation Series disk. I have been seeing it now for a couple of weeks at a local record shop selling for $6.99. I was wondering if it was worth getting. I have never heard any interviews by them and am a little curious to know what they are like. So, unless anyone can convince me that I shouldn't get it, I will. I can also post excerpts from it if there is interest. Any info on this cd would be greatly appreciated. From Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Wed Oct 25 12:46:13 1989 From: Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: NO Conversation cd and Peel Sessions, for that matter I've seen Conversation disc as well, although I don't think it was quite that cheap. I'm waiting for opinions, too. Also: I was at Boston's Tower Records Saturday, and I noticed that their Peel Session CD (the one that has 586) was now $6.99. I thought this was pretty funny, since the EP (in the import section) is $9.99. Do you guys care to comment on which NO Peel Session is better? From: Kevin Stussman Subject: Re: Brotherhood/Warsaw I have everthing (as far as I know) of New Order on LP but want to get CD stuff. Has anyone seen : Paul Haig / New Order single : The Only Truth Any of the stuff that isn't on Substance (e.g. Cries and Whispers) Live Material? And my personal favourite LP : The LP version of the video of the Perfect Kiss. (Its the same as the video, I'd kill for this one) Kevin (best LP's - Ceremony and Brotherhood) From: stus5239@fredonia.fredonia.edu (Kevin Stussman) Subject: Re: NO Conversation cd and Peel Sessions, for that matter The peel session with 586 and Turn the Heater on is great. 586 is really different from the PCL version. (Its worth buying) I've heard rumours that import CD's are "of less quality" than US CD's. (Although i've also heard the opposite of LP's) Personally, the only reason i'd buy import is if it was printed by Factory, not Qwest. (no real reason, I just like the idea) But the Peel sessions are all on Strange Fruit. Whatever. From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 25-Oct-1989 1935) Subject: RE: Greetings and Salutations & An Info Request John, Seems you missed "Still" by Joy Division...not sure if was released on cassette. Its not on CD (yet). Also, there's the stuff that New Order's done that's on soundtracks. Since I don't have any of these I can't answer the question fully but "Touched by the Hand of God", "Shellshock" (on Substance) and maybe a few more are on sound- tracks... Ed From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 25-Oct-1989 1947) Subject: RE: Brotherhood >YOU'RE CRAZY!!!!!!! [Gee, what would he have said if I told him I hated New Order?] >Technique is an extremely uneven release. It's got good >songs like V. Point, Mr. Disco, Dream Attack, Guilty Partner, and even >Fine Time [sort of] but Run, Round and Round Okay, if you put Round & Round (and All the Way, possibly my fave song on Technique) on your list you've got just about the whole album. As for Brotherhood, Weirdo, Broken Promises, Angel Dust, Every Little Counts (except for the ridiculous ending - on a CD ;-) are basically throwaways. And probably All Day Long too. Anyway this is just an opinion, so calm down. I don't remember much specifics from the introductions but I got back to Joy Division time, like I haven't just heard of New Order, I've been into them from Day 1...so give me a chance to adjust! Movement is still my favorite New Order album and I love Substance if you put it in the album category. If not, I'll take P C & L any day over the other three... > You probably think that the seven minute >long remix of Bizarre Love triangle is better than the album version >too. Sheesh. I can't even compare the two because I'd probably be listening to Blue Monday. So bottom line, maybe I have a different point of view, listening to JD for almost 10 years now. Also, if you remember my ulterior motive was to spark some interest in the list since it all but died out in the last few weeks... I certainly didn't mean to insult anyone...I was just stating MY distaste with the album! From: jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu (John N Trussell) Subject: Greetings and Salutations & An Info Request Just a quick (well, maybe not) question from a new list member...I have tried to accumulate all of the material by NO/JD that's available in my home area, but since my area is very, uh, well, shall we say backward (Pittston, Maine, pop. 2000) I honestly have no idea what is still out there that I have yet to find. This is what I have: Joy Division: Closer Substance (Don't remind me of U.P., I will be purchasing it shortly) New Order: Peel Session 1 ("Turn The Heater On," "We All Stand," "Too Late," and "5-8-6") Peel Session 2 ("Truth," "Senses," "I.C.B.," "Dreams Never End") Movement (Is This The Same as Ceremony?) Power, Corruption & Lies Low-Life Brotherhood Substance Technique This is not including 12"'s and the like. (I have no turntable :-( ) Most everything I buy is on Cassette, so that's what I'm looking for, but if something is available only on some other format, trust me, I still want to know about it. Oh, and this is both a question and an answer. Someone asked if there was anything with "Cries And Whispers" on it. The Substance double-cassette (released only in Europe) has the same stuff as the double-cd here along with "C&W," and 2 or 3 remixes (I THINK there's one other song as well, but the title escapes me...) I HAD a copy which I picked up used at the local New, Used, & Imported record store in Worcester, but MY TAPE MACHINE ATE IT!!! >:-( How hard is it to find another copy? Thank ye all for the info, it's MUCH appreciated. Keep in mind, I'm looking for the really obscure stuff. I'm heading to Tower Records-NYC on Vet's Weekend, hopefully with a good amount of $$$$$$... YOU'RE CRAZY!!!!!!! Brotherhood and Low Life are the best pieces of work New Order have ever come out with! Technique is an extremely uneven release. It's got good songs like V. Point, Mr. Disco, Dream Attack, Guilty Partner, and even Fine Time [sort of] but Run, Round and Round, and Loveless basically are stupid. I can't believe anyone would ever think of Brotherhood as anything but great. Christ. You probably think that the seven minute long remix of Bizarre Love triangle is better than the album version too. Sheesh. From: Michael Alan Wertheim Subject: The Perfect Kiss Lots of mixes. Let's count em up: 1) The LP mix, which is on "Lowlife" 2) The 12-inch mix, which is on the commercial 12-inch and "Substance" 3) The two instrumental mixes, which are on the commercial 12-inch, and one is on the "Substance" CD 4) An short edit of the 12-inch mix, which is on a radio-only promo 12-inch 5) The video mix, which is in the video and also on the aforementioned radio-only 12-inch 6) The Hot Tracks mix From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 26-Oct-1989 0824) Subject: Still John, Still was released after the demise of Joy Division. Its a double album which contains one record of studio out-take stuff + a live cover version of a Velvet Underground song ("Sister Ray"). The second record is the recording of the last Joy Division concert. This album is a MUST for any Joy Division fan. Its also notable for New Order fans because it contains the only commercially available version of "Ceremony" by Joy Division. ("Ceremony" later became New Order's first single). "Still" (double) October 1981 Factory FACT 40 (LP) (Additional special cloth bound edition also released) From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 26-Oct-1989 1105) Subject: RE: the mysterious Warsaw CD Liz, That liner note is great. My friend picked it up last night, I'll be prowling around Boston tonight for my own copy. It could be legit...don't know yet. One more comment about my New Order tastes, I'm a big fan of Martin Hannet. I think he was out of the "group" by PC & L. So my favorite New Order stuff was produced by him because he is considered NO's (& JD's) 5th member. I've got lots of other stuff he's produced from the Buzzcocks, A Certain Ratio, and Section 25 and the Wake and Happy Mondays, to Urban Shakedown and Magazine to name a few... From: "Elizabeth H. Bonesteel" Subject: the mysterious Warsaw CD Okay, folks, I went home last night and listened to it again. It is NOT a live recording. In fact, it looks suspiciously like a legitimate release, although the liner notes (are they still called liner notes when they come with a CD?) refer to the band as Joy Division. The disc itself is screened black, with the cover design (the white-line mountain drawing from "Unknown Pleasures") in white. It has the usual CD logo (compact DISC digital audio) as well as the following: MADE IN W-GERMANY BY P+0-PALLAS ALL RIGHTS OF THE PRODUCER AND OF THE OWNER OF THE WORK REPRODUCED RESERVED. UNAUTHORIZED COPYING, HIRING, LENDING, PUBLIC PERFORMANCE AND BROADCASTING OF THIS DISC PROHIBITED. GEMA RZM JD 01 c. 1978 p. 1989 The following are the liner notes: Richard Searling brought John Anderson into the album project. Anderson, head of the northern soul label Grapevine Records, had previouly produced records in Miami for his partner Bernie Bennick (who set up Swan Records in the 1960's) and was totally involved with soul music. In Joy Division's case, however, he was willing to take a chance by trying a new type of band and, with Searling, agreed that the group had some potential which they should try to develop. Previous to April, all dealing had be4en directly with Ian so the promoters met with the entire band and agreed to cut an album which would be paid for by Anderson and Searling. Rehearsals in late April resulted in at least two new songs being added to Joy Division's set. The promoters gave the band a copy of N.F. Porter's single "Keep On Keepin' On" and told them to take the backing track, add their own lyrics, and see what they came up with - the result being "Interzone", a song the band made distinctively their own. The final week of rehearsals also resulted in their writing "Transmission", the first verse of which contains a quotation from Alistair Crowley's _The Book of Thoth_. Joy Division went into Arrow Studios in Manchester on Monday, 1 May 78, and spent the first two days working to record Ian's vocals properly. The eleven tracks were laid down on Wednesday and Thursday, with Bob Auger, who had set up the studio and was the session engineer, basically co-producing the album with the band. Searling (who had booked the session) and Anderson took little part in the acutal recording sessions. On Thursday night (when Terry, the group's manager, was on hand) they signed contracts which were backdated to Monday of that week. The contracts, which became a major object of the band's discontent, were fairly standard. The artists' (recording) contract was copied from that used by RCA in Britain, but the publishing contract was American and only provided 3-4% to the band - normal in the U.S. at that time for unknowns but, because of the punk revolution and the rise of the independent labels, considered very low in Britain. The band had not been comfortable with the meagre publishing contract from almost the very start, and about two weeks after the session Bernard had taken it to Richard Boon who suggested that Joy Division contact a solicitor he recommened and attempt to break the agreement. During the album's final mix-down on Friday, Anderson put some synthesiser into it. He believed that the raw sound of punk would not last much longer and he wanted Joy Division to have a more professional and advanced sound than all the other same-sounding punk bands of the time. But when the group heard the mix they were very unhappy - they disliked the synths (though less than a year later they used them on _Unknown Pleasures_) and, wanting only guitar and drums, asked that the album be remixed. Joy Division believed that if the album were released, it would harm their punk band reputation, so Anderson and Searling decided to use it instead to set up a record deal with RCA. Anderson took a tape to Derek Everett, head of RCA A&R with whom he had an exclusive contract, and began to persuade Everett to go with Joy Division. At the same time he had to work to convince the group that RCA was the only record company they had a chance with. WARSAW IS: IAN CURTIN - VOCALS BERNARD ALBRECHT - GUITAR PETER HOOK - BASS STEPHEN MORRIS - DRUMS [Back cover:] WARSAW 1. THE DRAWBACK................... 1:42 2. LEADERS OF MEN................. 2:28 3. THEY WALKED IN LINE............ 2:50 4. FAILURES....................... 2:22 5. NOVELTY........................ 3:36 6. NO LOVE LOST................... 4:34 7. TRANSMISSION................... 4:20 8. LIVING IN THE ICE AGE.......... 2:19 9. INTERZONE...................... 2:02 10. WARSAW......................... 2:06 11. SHADOWPLAY..................... 3:53 12. AS YOU SAID*................... 2:01 RECORDED AT ARROW STUDIOS, MANCHESTER, MAY 1978 *RECORDED AT BRITANNIA ROW, MARCH 1980 PRODUCED BY WARSAW CO-PRODUCED & ENGINEERED BY BOB AUGER FINAL MIX BY JOHN ANDERSON ALL SONGS WRITTEN BY WARSAW PRINTED IN WEST GERMANY You folks are the experts. Is this thing legitimate? From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 27-Oct-1989 1314) Subject: RE: various stuff >Warsaw CD: I don't know, it's pretty professional (well, at least it looks >that way) but considering that Factory is the only source for legal JD/NO >stuff, I still consider it a bootleg (and a high quality one at that). It could be legal but not sanctioned by "the band" once a group breaks up strange things make it out...although Cabaret Voltaire haven't broken up (to my knowledge) '8 Crepescule Tracks' fits the same bill. They found some tapes that they had the rights to and even if the band is embarrassed they released it... From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 27-Oct-1989 1321) Subject: Warsaw Hi again, I just called the CD hotline concerning the Warsaw CD. They had it filed under Warsaw FYI. "Extremely rare on CD. Unclear whether it is legit. [bootleg or not] West German import" The CD hotline is 1-800-CDINFO1 in these parts (Mass.) anyway. It lists just about all CDs made in the western world... From: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu (Bob Kusumoto) Subject: various stuff Still: its a must but I wish they would salvage the master and put it on CD Warsaw CD: I don't know, it's pretty professional (well, at least it looks that way) but considering that Factory is the only source for legal JD/NO stuff, I still consider it a bootleg (and a high quality one at that). Sumner: His solo album is supposed to be out although I haven't check with my best local importer about it. Yeah, lots of favors called in to help him out with the album. From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 30-Oct-1989 0902) Subject: You heard it here first! Hi, Was reading The Beat magazine, a local Boston fanzine...they had a review of The Swinging Erudites new LP (the Swingers are a parody band most known for "Walk With An Erection")...anyway, what does this have to do with JD/NO? Well...they have a song on it called "The Captain and Tenille Meet Joy Division" ....It's really "Love Will Keep Us Together" sung to the tune of "Love Will Tear Us Apart"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 30-Oct-1989 1103) Subject: RE: You heard it here first! Dessau does the version of ISOLATION....Never heard any Stiff Kittens material. From: jstout@atc.boeing.com Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss/1963 Well, I was convinced that "1963" was about someone getting drafted (Johnny == JFK, (18th?) birthday, etc), and it seems like a good fit, but a friend of mine put forth a good argument for it being about a guy being threatened by his (former?) boyfriend. I still like my explanation better, though. I'm sure too many other people will explain that "Perfect Kiss" is about Ian Curtis (who committed suicide back when they were Joy Division). As was mentioned a month or two ago, I'm still looking for the lyrics to the part of "Perfect Kiss" that's on the Substance version and the video. (You know, the "verse" that ends with "The perfect kiss is the kiss of death".) Anyone have it? From: Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: The Perfect Kiss I had a minor debate with Bob over his signature quote, and I'm going to throw it out to the list. His quote says: "Turned enough to see his gun I said, 'Let's go out and have some fun.'" After checking with the original (on Low-Life), I'm still pretty sure the first line is: "Pretending not to see his gun" It's easier to think this when listening to the video version, but I think my argument still holds for the album version. Thoughts, anyone? From: huebner@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert E. Huebner) Subject: Perfect Kiss/1963 After reading the quotation from "Perfect Kiss", I wondered about the meaning of the phrase and if it has anything in common with the story behind 1963 (B-Side on 12" of True Faith, or Substance CD). Does anyone out there have an opinion or "official" explanation of what the lyrics to either song refer to? If it is obvious, please attribute my ignorance to my relative newness to the list. From: Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss/1963 --- jstout@atc.boeing.com wrote: As was mentioned a month or two ago, I'm still looking for the lyrics to the part of "Perfect Kiss" that's on the Substance version and the video. (You know, the "verse" that ends with "The perfect kiss is the kiss of death".) Anyone have it? -- end of quoted material --- I just got the video, so if no one posts the lyrics in a day or two I'll try transcribing. Would anyone be willing to dub me a copy of "Pumped Full of Drugs" if I sent them a tape? I haven't been able to find it; the Upper Valley is an alternative wasteland. Also: is the person who wanted a copy of the 12" B sides still around? (Sorry I don't remember your name.) I was waiting for you to send the cassette along... were you waiting for some reply from me?? From: huebner@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert E. Huebner) Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss/1963 > > Would anyone be willing to dub me a copy of "Pumped Full of Drugs" if I sent > them a tape? I haven't been able to find it; the Upper Valley is an > alternative wasteland. > What exactly is "Pumped Full of Drugs"? I haven't heard anything about it. From: Michael Alan Wertheim Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss/1963 "Pumped Full of Drugs" is a New Order concert video that Factory released a few years ago. The concert was in 1985 in Tokyo. I have seen at least two different vinyl bootlegs of this concert. I would imagine that these records were made from the video. As fas as the lyrics of "Perfect Kiss" goes, it is very possible that the lyrics in the live (video) version are different from the lyrics in the produced (LP and 12") version. From: stus5239@fredonia.fredonia.edu (Kevin Stussman) Subject: Re: The Perfect Kiss I could swear it was "Pretending not to see his guilt" But, im pretty sure it's not "turning". (I know "guilt" doesn't rhyme with "fun" but gun doesn't make sense) Whatever. I'm just happy I figured out: Everytime I look at you I feel a shock right through WITH A BOLT OF BLUE. (Bugged me to no ends) From: jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu (John N Trussell) Subject: Misc. NO stuff... Okay: let's see if I can help the discussions in any way. 1) The quote, I'm ALMOST (*cop-out alert*) certain, is "Pretending not to see his gun..." (At least, that's what I thought it was in the first place, before the question even came up.) 2) The missing verse to "Perfect Kiss" (Which, for some reason, I never realized WASN'T in the Low-Life version) is as follows (I spent sooooo long working on this one...): When you are alone (at/every) night You search yourself for all the things that you believe are right If you give it all away You throw away your only chance to be here today Then a fire breaks out on your street(s) We lose another broken heart in a land of meat My friend has took his final breath Now I know the perfect kiss is the kiss of death the stuff in parentheses is the only stuff I couldn't quite get (I think it's "every" on Substance and "at" in the video. 3) This is a suggestion I may regret. Since it's apparent that many of the lyrics in NO/JD's songs are, well, difficult to decipher, what say we try to get some unified set of lyrics. Send them (gulp -- hope I'm not close to quota) to me at jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu (internet) or jtruss@wpi.BITNET, and I'll try to unify them. (I need something to do. :-) Just send the lyrics for any songs you want, in a semi-compact form, please, and put any lyrics you're not sure of in parentheses (with possibilities, like I did.) Send each separately, it's easier to combine 'em. Keep 'em coming, i'm curious to see what I get. Try to get varied/obscure songs, too. (I.E. Movement, I have no clue what those are.) From: stus5239@fredonia.fredonia.edu (Kevin Stussman) Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss/1963 If you really want the PFD tape, I have it VHS and i'll try to get the "extended" lyrics ( I have an interpretation of it somewhere) Just give me some feedback and I'll get it ASAP. (Work allowing) From: Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Subject: BLT --- Kevin Stussman wrote: I'm just happy I figured out: Everytime I look at you I feel a shock right through WITH A BOLT OF BLUE. (Bugged me to no ends) Kevin --- end of quoted material --- Is THAT what that is? It sounds right, it just doesn't make much sense. Is there a good source for NO lyrics? I'd love to get some... (Someone posted the lyrics to "Technique" a while back... Thanks!) How about in Blue Monday in the first verse... How does it feel To treat me like you do When you've laid your hands upon me And told me... < what??> I know that the lyrics for "Perfect Kiss" could be different when live; that's why I checked before I asked. I think they BOTH say "Pretending [or "pretended"] not to see his ". From: stus5239@fredonia.fredonia.edu (Kevin Stussman) Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss/1963 Here is the format for the perfect kiss with the "extra lyrics": 12" version has it (therefore Substance LP has it) Video version (on Substance video) has it Low life doesn't Special EP vinyl of the video of the song doesn't. (Rare) (For those who didn't know that the song was redone "live" in their Manchester studio for the video) (any other versions I missed?) From: stus5239@fredonia.fredonia.edu (Kevin Stussman) Subject: Re: BLT When you've laid your hands upon me, And told me who you are. (Pretty sure) I have a book called "NO/JD A history of Cuttings" with oodles of articles, interviews, and lyrics. I live in NYC and there's a store that has it called Bleecker Bobs. It was compilated by fans, it's not legit. No there isn't really a good source for lyrics. (another one that bugs me is Cries & Whispers (or mesh i always mix them up)): Inside the (virtue, dungeon) Lies another sacrifice UGH!! Kevin P.s. Could you send me a copy of the lyrics you have? Thanks From: stus5239@fredonia.fredonia.edu (Kevin Stussman) Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss/1963 I read this article in SPIN. It named N.O. as the 3rd Best Band Ever : " The band of the decade. New Order not only offer the better bass lines than the competition, they do a better job of being an eighties band: Something nearly intangeable, just out of reach. The failures of the decade aren't bad songs, but over or underexposure. Bands play for their lonely hearts clubs or someone else become as common as water. From their cryptic covers to their computer grooves, New Order has remained an enigma, a shifting relationship between product and humanity, with technology informing both camps. They are a fetish that refuses to be consumed." - All copyright infringements unintended I enjoyed it. Kevin From: "Elizabeth H. Bonesteel" Subject: Re: The Perfect Kiss Well, as long as we're nit-picking...:-) >Everytime I look at you >I feel a shock right through >WITH A BOLT OF BLUE. I believe it's "Every time I think of you". From: "Elizabeth H. Bonesteel" Subject: Joy Division Books Francis sez: >(a) a book of Joy Division lyrics I have one of those fan-made clipping/lyric compilations that I picked up at Newbury Comics in Cambridge. I used to see it around a lot, although I haven't looked recently. It contains lyrics to just about everything (although how "official" they are I don't know) in addition to newspaper clippings on all kinds of things. (They even included some bad reviews!) It covers the band from Warsaw to Joy Division to New Order (through Power, Corruption & Lies, which Rolling Stone gave a four-star review. Must have been a real music magazine back then.) Cost about $15. Worth it, for rabid folks like me. I'll post publication information, if there is any. Liz From: huebner@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert E. Huebner) Subject: Re: Lyrics follow-up > I got by simply listening overandoverandoverandoverandover...) the next time > I head back, probably Thanksgiving break. As for when I post the final list, > well, no clue, we'll see how it goes. > > Thanks for giving me something to do. :-) > > ******************************************************************************* > john trussell jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu > wpi, worcester, massachussetts (bitnet: jtruss@wpi) > ******************************************************************************* When you do get a unified list, you might considering sending them to the Lyrics server at Umass.BITNET. That way more people, esp. people not on this mailing list, might get a chance to see them. Last time I used the server, it told me the help files were down, but if you type help in a message to the server, it will tell you how to go about updating it remotely. Now you have something ELSE to do.....sorry... From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 31-Oct-1989 1656) Subject: RE: Bernard Bernard also goes/went by the last name Dickens! The man of many names. Barnie generally plays guitar, Steve Morris generally plays drums, Gillian generally plays synth and Peter Hook plays bass. The generally means they can also don other instruments on occasion. Danno, how could you not mention Hooky playing the bass around his ankles? Ed From arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com Wed Nov 1 10:40:20 1989 From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 01-Nov-1989 0900) Subject: RE: Thank ye kindly... ------------------Reply to mail dated 31-OCT-1989 18:55:15.59------------------ >1) where did you get them? (official source or no? I want to know the certainty >factor on these.) I stated before, I got one of those Italian lyric books in Rough Trade Records in London, it came with a single, basically the flexi-disc plus "You're No Good For Me" (which I haven't seen or heard anywhere else). There are Italian lyric books for other groups including the Cure. The reason I call them Italian lyric books is because they are printed in Italy along with the Italian for each song. There is also a biography up front in Italian. I typed in what was there the way it was as it was. It took a while and I did most of it during loooong lunch hours Jim so it didn't interfere with my work! >2) When there's a (#) at the end of a line such as this one ("Disorder," >_Still_): > Until the spirit, new sensation > takes hold - then you know (3) Generally the number signifies how many times to repeat THAT line. It was this way in the book and I faithfully reproduced it. There are one or two obvious places where I diverged from the book but there still may be mistakes. >3)Would it be more proper to write out situations like #2, or keep in (#) form? If you would like to write a quick proggie to "fill out" the lines go ahead. I typed them once...that was enough! :-) >4) Why "Unknown Pleasures/Disorder" and "Closer/Atrocity Exhibition", since >it seems all are on either _Closer_ or _Unknown Pleasures_? This is an obscurity put in by Jim(my). The lyrics are in the format suitable for the lyrics server (incidently, I checked yesterday and Substance and Still were not in the server so I submitted them again). The format is: artist album title +song (the + signifies the beginning of a song so you can request underlines the lyrics for a particular song) Jim obviously picked up on the album title and assumed that it was the album plus the song below... >Not to nit-pick at all (I needed someone to give me those, since I don't even >have _Still_, _Unknown Pleasures_, or the CD-version of _Substance_.) I do >appreciate the contribution. Well gee thanx...Ed Oh, Francis, I'll get the publication data for both books, the lyrics book and the bio book. I just don't have them handy at this moment... From mplex!dam@uunet.UU.NET Thu Nov 2 02:41:17 1989 Subject: New Order Lyrics From: Dory Meynert Could someone, anyone please post any or all lyrics for New Order that they have in their possession. Post them or E-Mail them to me. It's my girlfriend's birthday on the 5th and I want to give her the lyrics done up with interesting fonts. I would really appreciate any help you guys can give me! Thanks!! -- Dory Meynert Tel: 604 875-1461 Microplex Systems Ltd, 265 East 1st Avenue uunet!van-bc!mplex!dam Vancouver, BC, V5T 1A7, Canada From arthur@hsfalt.enet.dec.com Fri Nov 3 08:44:22 1989 From: arthur@hsfalt.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 03-Nov-1989 0941) Subject: Stuff Here's the dope on the songbook: :-) anyone care to translate? "Joy Division" redazione e traduzioni di Marco Broll collaborazione ad alcune traduzioni di Isabelle Lusignan coptertina di Giacomo Spazio impaginazione di Spiral Man realizzazione di Marcello Baraghini un ringraziamento alla Maso Distribution di Mestre per aver concesso l'uso del video da cui e' tratto il frontespizio per ogni riferimento bibliografico cff. "An Ideal For Living" di Mark Johnson, edito in UK da Proteus Book e "Joy Division + New Order' di Brian Edge, edito in UK da Omnibus Press This book also includes the lyrics to the Warsaw disc, since 90% of the lyrics are repeated, its just a matter of hours until I get those lyrics out to the world....!!!!!!! Here's the dope about the JD/NO biograhy I have: (anyone care to translate to Italian? :-) "Joy Division + New Order, Pleasures and Wayward Distraction", Brian Edge Copyrigth 1984 Omnibus Press ISBN: 0.7119.0527.4 Order number: OP 43009 And in answer about the Warsaw CD that's hit the streets, what the bio says about that is: To add to the confusion, the biography I have about Joy Division and New Order says, "...The ``album'' which they spent the next five days recording was structurally sound but direly produced and has never seen the light of day. [sic] The tapes were bought by the group and at one stage before the release of Joy Division's first LP proper there was talk of a severely remixed version being issued." Ed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- `One owes respect to the living: to the dead one owes only the truth.' - Voltaire -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From @po5.andrew.cmu.edu:pc20+@andrew.cmu.edu Mon Nov 6 10:17:14 1989 From: Peter Yung Chang Subject: Re: NO Conversation cd and Peel Sessions, for that matter Import CDs are of "lesser" quality? Really. In what way? How come I can't tell? Imported vinyls ARE better, because of the materials they use and blah-blah-blah. I don't know about CDs, but I don't think it's the case. The US ones scratch as easily as the imported ones, and CDs don't usually tend to warp like vinyl... peech From eboneste@ccm.bbn.com Mon Nov 6 11:11:48 1989 From: "Elizabeth H. Bonesteel" Subject: Spanish UP Hey kids - I have a friend who picked up a Spanish pressing of "Unknown Pleasures" a few years back for (!) $3.00. He's never played it (I didn't say he was a *smart* friend :-)). Do y'all have any idea if it's worth anything? Liz From arthur@hsfalt.enet.dec.com Mon Nov 6 16:58:35 1989 From: arthur@hsfalt.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 06-Nov-1989 1254) Subject: Warsaw album lyrics...enjoy... (I was suprised how much most of the songs changed from previous versions. It seems they musta been fine tweaking things..."The Drawback" or "All of This for You" is the only totally new song...Ed) Joy Division Warsaw +The Drawback (or All of this for You) --- -------- --- -- ---- --- --- Seen the troubles and the evils of this world I've seen the stretches between godliness and sin I've had the promise and confessions of true faith And the hypocrisy that always lies within And they left it for you -- all of this for you (2) I've seen the products and the other world of waste I've seen the colour of corruption deep within I've seen them lose themselves in dignity and taste To see in black and white and through to black again And they left it all for you -- all of this for you (2) And they left it for you -- all of this for you And they left it for you -- everything for you I've seen the troubles and the evils of this world I've seen the ones who can succeed but always lose I've seen what's left of poor technology and work And watched them dying as they leave their ship of fools And they left it for you -- all of this for you +Leaders of Men ------- -- --- Born from some mother's womb -- Just like any other room Made a promise for a new life -- Made a victim out of your life When your time's on the door -- And you trip on the floor And you feel you can touch -- All the noise is too much And the seeds that are sown -- Are no longer your own Just a minor operation -- To force the final ultimatum A thousand words are spoken loud Reach that gun to fool the crowds When you walk down the street and the sound that's so sweet And you wish you could hide -- Maybe go for a ride To some picture arcade -- Where the future's not made A nightmare situation -- Infiltrate imagination Smacks of past holy wars -- Fight a war with broken laws The leaders of men -- Born out of your frustration The leaders of men -- Just a strange infatuation The leaders of men -- Made a promise for a new life No saviour for our sakes To crush the atrocities of hate Self-induced manipulation To crush all thoughts of mass-salvation +They Walked in Line ---- ------ -- ---- All dressed in uniforms so fine They drank and killed to pass the time Wearing the shame of all their crimes With measured steps they walked in line They walked in line (8) They carried pictures of their wives And number tags to prove their lies And made it through the whole machine With dirty hearts and hands washed clean They walked in line (8) Full of a glory never seen They made it through the whole machine Turn never questioned anymore Hypnotic trance they never saw +Failures -------- Don't speak with shameless face A failure of modern man To the centre of luck he dived Has a hold on a nose so red Throw up in a hollow field Break the image of your father's son Drawn to an inner field He was thought of as the only one (2) He no longer denies All the failures of the modern man No, no, no we can't make sides Sees the failures of the modern man Wise words and sympathy Tell the story of our history New strength gives a real touch Sense of reason make it all too much With a strange fatality Broke the spirits of a lesser man Some other race could see In his way he was the only one (2) He no longer denies All the failures of the modern man No, no, no we can't make sides See the failures of the modern man Now that it's right to decide In his time he was the total man Taken from Caesar's side Kept in silence just to prove us wrong He no longer denies All the failures of the modern man No, no, no we can't make sides Sees the failures of the modern man All the failures of the modern man +Novelty ------- When the people listen to you don't you know it means a lot 'cos you've got to work so hard for everything you've got Can't rest on your laurels now Not when you've got none You'll find yourself in a gutter Right back where you came from Someone told me being in the know is the main thing We all need the security that belonging brings Can't stand on your own in these times against all the odds I don't want to act uncool at all the other sods You slap your back and pretend you knew about all the things that we were gonna do What ya gonna do, what ya gonna do when it's over? You're all on your own now, Don't you think that's a shame But you're the only one responsible that's to blame When ya gonna grow up and act, and be yourself 'cos pretty soon you'll find yourself nailed to the shelf Grab it while you can, but don't ever relax, 'cos there's always someone gonna stab your back What ya gonna do, what ya gonna do +No Love Lost -- ---- ---- So long sitting here -- Didn't here the warning Waiting for the tape to run We've been moving round in different situations Knowing that the time would come, Just to see you torn apart -- I need it (3) Two-way mirror in the hall They like to watch everything you do Transmitters hidden in the wall So they know everything you say is true Turn it on -- don't turn it on -- Turn it on You've been seeing things in darkness -- running, learning Hoping that the truth will pass No life underground wasting, never changing Wishing that this thing won't last To never see you show your age To watch the feeling fades I need it (3) +Transmission ------------ Radio live -- transmission -- Radio -- live transmission Listen to the silence, let it ring on Eyes dark, relentless, frightened of the sun We would have a fine time living in the night Left a blind instruction, take away our sight We would go on as though nothing was wrong And hide from these days to remain all alone Staying in the same place, staring all the time Touching from a distance, further all the time Dance, dance, dance, dance, dance to the radio (4) And I could call out when the going gets tough And we could make contact if we just don't look No language, just sound is all that I know We'll synchronize love to the beat of the show And we could dance, dance, dance, dance, dance to the radio (4) +Living in the Ice Age ------ -- --- --- --- Seen the real atrocities, buried in the sand Stockpiled safety for a few -- we stand holding hands I -- living in the iceage (2) Nothing will hold, nothing will fit Into the cold, no smile on your lips Living in the iceage (3) Searching for another way, see them hide behind the door Live in holes and disused shafts hoped a little more I -- living in the iceage (2) Nothing will hold, nothing will fit Into the cold, no smile on your lips Living in the iceage (3 + 4) +Interzone --------- Brrroooh! (2) Brrr-oo-oo-ooh! (2) Broooh! I walked through the city limits Attracted by some force within it Around the corner where a puppet lay A wire fence where the children play And I was looking for a friend of mine Yeah, looking for a friend of mine The car screeched in the sand and dust Metallic blue turned red with rust Still defied all by guiding you Turned on to a night with you And I was looking for a friend of mine Yeah, looking for a friend of mine Down the dark street, the houses looked the same I was walking round and round you nailed me to a train Had to get away, trying to find a way To get out -- Brrrooh! (2) Brrooh! (3) Lots of windows stand in a row The light shined -- a deadly glow No place to stop, no place to go I guess they died some time ago And I was looking for some friends of mine Yeah, I was looking for some friends of mine +Warsaw ------ I was there in the backstage when first light came around I grew up like a changeling to wait the first time around I could see all the weakness I could pick all the faults But I concede all the faith-tests, just a stick in your throat 3 - 1 - G (3) I'm around in your soundtrack, to mirror all that you've done To find the right side of reason to kill the three lies for one I could see all the cold facts, I could see through your eyes All this don't make no contact no matter how hard I try 3 - 1 - G (3) I could still hear the footsteps, I could see only walls All this don't make no contact, here, hearing no at all I could see contradiction, I could give up the right Just to live in the past tense, To make believe you were right! 3 - 1 - G (3) 3 - 5 - 0 - 1 - 2 - 5 +Shadowplay ---------- To the centre of the city where all roads meet looking for you To the depths of the ocean where all hopes sank searching for you Moving through the silence without motion waiting for you In a room with no window in the corner, I found truth In the shadowplay, acting out your own death, knowing more As the assassins all grouped in four lines, Dancing on the floor, And with cold steel, odour on their bodies, made a move to connect I could only stare in disbelief as the crowds all left I did everything, everything you wanted to I let them use you -- for their own ends To the centre of the city in the night waiting for you (2) +As You Said -- --- ---- (instrumental) From arthur@hsfalt.enet.dec.com Mon Nov 6 17:05:45 1989 From: arthur@hsfalt.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 06-Nov-1989 1231) Subject: RE: Spanish UP ------------------Reply to mail dated 6-NOV-1989 12:15:55.47------------------ Don't know about Spanish but inferiour Portugese pressings (especially of "Still") were floating around a few years ago...Ed From parana@bianca.stanford.edu Wed Nov 8 01:58:13 1989 From: Howard Hsieh Subject: Blue Monday - request for discography Anyone have a list of all the mixes for this song? -Howard parana@portia.stanford.edu From eboneste@ccm.bbn.com Wed Nov 8 08:50:46 1989 From: "Elizabeth H. Bonesteel" Subject: RE: Spanish UP Ed sez: >Don't know about Spanish but inferiour Portugese pressings (especially >of "Still") were floating around a few years ago...Ed No, it's definitely Spanish. Says "Made in Spain" on the label. Could very probably be an inferior pressing...but then, my friend treats his records like #$%&, so I'll probably never know. I was rather appalled that he got it for three bucks (in any condition), considering I paid ~$12 for it a few years ago when it was still an import. Grumble. And on that subject, has anybody done any comparison listening of the (US) dometic vs. (US) import CDs? Liz From sigma@pawl.rpi.edu Wed Nov 8 09:06:59 1989 From: Kevin J Martin Subject: Re: Blue Monday discography Well, I can start the Blue Monday discography by listing the more obvious ones: Blue Monday 7",12" The Beach Blue Monday 1988 7",12" Beach Buggy ...and video mixes? I'm not fond enough of this song to be able to distinguish whether or not various copies are actually different versions. While we're on the subject, how about a discography for The Perfect Kiss? Was there really an English 12" with four tracks, now out of print, or do we have to settle for the American release (not that it's bad)? Kevin Martin sigma@pawl.rpi.edu (.signature under construction) -- Kevin Martin sigma@pawl.rpi.edu (Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean the whole world isn't out to get me) From kus3 Wed Nov 8 13:12:23 1989 From: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu (Bob Kusumoto) "RE: Spanish UP" (Nov 8, 9:11) Subject: US Qwest CDs cs UK Factory CDs Well, my ex-roommate picked up the Qwest version of NO's Substance when it first came out and played it on his portable Sony D-10 player and the first disc either skipped or just plain quit around Shellshock. The second disk turned out to be ok. When I went out looking for the import Factory version and played it on his machine, it worked without a hitch. Since then, I've pretty much gone after import New Order and Joy Division (and lots of other bands that have the original masters on a UK label like Fiction with the Cure). I'm not knocking the US labels, but putting out mass quanities of CDs and not having the original master to work from probably lessen the quality of the product. (Also works in reverse, US based bands tend to sound better from US labels.) Bob -- Bob Kusumoto | Turned enough to see his gun, Internet: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu | I said, BITNET: kus3@tank.uchicago.bitnet | "Let's go out and have some fun." UUCP: {gargoyle,oddjob}!tank!kus3 | --- New Order, "Perfect Kiss" From Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Wed Nov 8 12:17:11 1989 From: Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Subject: For Dory Meynert, Sorry to bother everyone, but the mail is not going through for some reason. Dory, I've got what you want, and I sent the message 3 days ago. My mailer just notified my that "after 83 hours, it has not been delivered. Attempts will continue for 26 days..." I know you can't wait that long, and it might be too late already. Do you have any alternative addresses I could try? I really tried to think about something to say about New Order, but nothing is coming to mind. Other than that the Peel Session CDs from them are only $6.99 now at the Tower Records in Boston; if you're in the area, they seem irresistible at that price. Ciao, Danno From 65869C@D1.dartmouth.edu Mon Nov 13 22:58:43 1989 From: 65869c@d1.dartmouth.edu (Anu) Subject: Cd Anyone know if the second set of JD peel sesssions will be put out on CD? How about STILL? From meyer@sr71.enet.dec.com Tue Nov 14 06:56:44 1989 From: meyer@sr71.enet.dec.com (Jim Meyer HPS Telecommunications 297-5507 14-Nov-1989 0750) Subject: Peel Cds >Anyone know if the second set of JD peel sesssions will be put out on CD? It's been out for along time now it's just hard to find. >How about STILL? We can only hope but if Warsaw came out anything can happen... Jim From carl@garfield.mun.edu Tue Nov 14 19:10:06 1989 From: Carl Noseworthy Subject: Perfect Kiss lyrics? I remember a discussion quite awhile back about 'Perfect Kiss'. Does anyone have the complete lyrics to this song? Carl. From kus3 Wed Nov 15 21:58:04 1989 From: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu (Bob Kusumoto) Subject: some rough lyrics and new archives well, when I was going though old mail messages, I found a couple of interesting things that I've kept over the past couple years. One was the complete lyrics to Technique which I placed on the archives and some rough lyrics for a couple of songs off of Movement, "Doubts even here" and "Denial". Although the technique lyrics are a bit long to mail but here are the doubts and denial lyrics (by bruce geryk, c. fall 1988). ps the lyrics have been added to the archives. Mail to ceremony-request@tank.uchicago.edu if you need them mailed to you (or if you want a quick primer on anonymous ftp). Doubts even here Those steps which seem to take a lifetime When eyes just turn and stare The day begins, collapsing without warning You fade from sight, there's nothing there , calls answered daily Questions are on your side Deeply moved, beyond all consolation You felt the pulse, now hear the cry In my mind thoughts are becoming clearer I'm watching every move you make Counting time spent in observation A single blow, a false mistake You revealed to me all that I need to know now But please don't turn away Why can't I talk to you now? There's nowhere left to go Where is this taking (???) now There's nothing more I want You're all (???) now Don't throw our joy away (???) now Memories are all that's left I need you near to me NOW ...(Gillian mumbles) -------------------- (???) indicates undecipherable lyrics Denial Here I am in a house full of doors with no exits In a light that is grey like the stain on my windows All of this is a gift such a painful companion Inside of me It's just something I know The answer's not there It comes and it goes It frightens me It's just something I know The answer's not there It comes and it goes And it frightens me This feeling inside me can't confront the decay To fall down on my knees and resume this charade Believe me, this distance, it's not what I need Inside of me (there is more but my battery ran out) -- Bob Kusumoto | Turned enough to see his gun, Internet: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu | I said, BITNET: kus3@tank.uchicago.bitnet | "Let's go out and have some fun." UUCP: {gargoyle,oddjob}!tank!kus3 | --- New Order, "Perfect Kiss" From Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Thu Nov 16 14:03:19 1989 From: Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss lyrics? Since no one else has responded... These are taken from the Low-life lyrics that are in the Tank archives, but modified to what I think they are. So, feel free to debate with me & the list as to what you might think they are. (I'm 99% sure of it all, except for the last word in the chorus-- that might not be "love", but I can't say that it's anything else.) I've also gone through the rest of the Low-life lyrics and the JD "Unknown Pleasures" lyrics, correcting some typos and omissions. Wouldn't want anyone to think I was anal retentive, though, so I'll let you all make your own changes, unless there's a demand... Ciao, Danno The Perfect Kiss I stood there beside myself thinking hard about the weather Then came by a friend of mine, suggested we go out together Then I knew it from the start this friend of mine would fall apart Pretending not to see his gun, I said let's go out and have some fun I know, you know, we believe in the land of love I know, you know, we believe in the land of love I have always thought about staying here and going out Tonight I should have stayed at home playing with my pleazure zone He has always been so strange, I often thought he was deranged Pretending not to see his gun I said let's go out and have some fun I know, you know, we believe in the land of love I know, you know, we believe in the land of love *Bonus verse in video version, also on Substance: (this may be different from the one that was posted a while back, 'cause I forgot to save that) When you are alone at night You search yourself for all the things that you believe are right If you give it all away You throw away your only chance to be here today Then a fire breaks out on your street You lose another broken heart in a land of meat My friend took his final breath Now I know the perfect kiss is the kiss of death From Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Thu Nov 16 14:13:45 1989 From: Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Subject: Recent purchases I'm sure everyone on the list has these already, but I just bought them and thought I'd share my thoughts... NO: Movement, Peel Sesson When I first got into NO, I liked Technique and stuff that sounded most like that the best. Now, though, I find myself agreeing with a lot of other people: the earlier stuff is both better lyrically and more interesting muscially. I finally bought Movement, and I really like it! If I had gotten it 2 or 3 months ago, it would have just sat there, as I listened to Technique for it's polish. What was I thinking? I'm going to try compiling the lyrics, but I can't make promises as to the time... I got the Peel Session with "5 8 6", and I like that a lot as well. Now, I know this was discussed previously, but I don't really remember 'cause I had no idea what songs were being talked about, but where are "Turn the Heater On" and "Too Late" from? (BTW: I own all the NO CD albums, but I don't have the 1981-1982 EP, so if they're from there, I'm sorry for my ingnorance. I should track that down at our radio station, I know.) JD: Unknown Pleasures When I was gettting into New Order, I figured I would like JD as well so I listened to some at the radio station. But I was turned off by Ian's voice (again, what was I thinking??). Anyway, now that I'm not so closed-minded, I bought this album and love it. (I've gone through the archived lyrics and made my own modifications, in case anyone wants to compare.) It's too early to pick favorite songs, but I really like "She's Lost Control." I think I was also put off before by the lack of polish, but I'm more aware of the history now (how they were among, if not THE, first to be doing this kind of music). I'm looking forward to picking up the rest. Now I feel a little more knowledgeable. Maybe soon I'll be NO/JD gods like everyone else on the list :-). Ciao, Danno From jol@SEI.CMU.EDU Thu Nov 16 14:32:37 1989 Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss lyrics? <789520@mac.Dartmouth.EDU> From: Eel O'Nuj Does anyone out there have lyrics to "Temptation"? The Eelman From mohammed@neworder.ils.nwu.edu Thu Nov 16 16:41:44 1989 From: Riad Mohammed Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss lyrics? >> Tonight I should have stayed at home playing with my pleazure zone >> He has always been so strange, I often thought he was deranged >I think it's "playing with my precious one". It makes more sense, sort of. I always thought of it as "playing with my pleasure zone" Riad --- Riad Mohammed | "You've got blue eyes, You've got green eyes, mohammed@neworder.ils.nwu | You've got grey eyes" Institute for Learning Sciences | -- Neworder, "Temptation" Northwestern University | "Everytime I think of you, I feel a shock right through with a bolt of blue" -- Neworder, "Bizarre Love Triangle" I'm not bad, I'm just programmed that way -- Jessica Robot --- From @po3.andrew.cmu.edu:mw22+@andrew.cmu.edu Thu Nov 16 16:13:40 1989 From: Michael Alan Wertheim Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss lyrics? > Tonight I should have stayed at home playing with my pleazure zone > He has always been so strange, I often thought he was deranged I think it's "playing with my precious one". It makes more sense, sort of. From jol@SEI.CMU.EDU Thu Nov 16 16:30:05 1989 Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss lyrics? <0ZMmgR_00XoVI10Et8@andrew.cmu.edu> From: Eel O'Nuj I'm positive it's 'pleasure zone'. The Eelman From Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Thu Nov 16 17:27:53 1989 From: Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss lyrics? --- Michael Alan Wertheim wrote: (I wrote:) >> Tonight I should have stayed at home playing with my pleazure zone >> He has always been so strange, I often thought he was deranged >I think it's "playing with my precious one". It makes more sense, sort of. After an attentive listen to both versions, I still disagree. The original lyrics (in the archives) have something like what you said; I think it was "precious own". If it's going to be anything, I think the last word has to rhyme with "own"; also, there definitely seems to be a "z" sound in the middle of the next-to-last word, and "precious" should have a "sh" sound. (I know, vocalists often take liberties with pronunciation...) The first line of the verse, namely I have always thought about staying here and going out could be "staying in", but I don't think so. The video mix sounds more like that than the original, but I still think it's "here." (And no one seems to be arguing.) I should thank the origianl poster of the lyrics profusely. It's much easier for me to pick nits than it was for him to do the compilation originally, and I appreciate his effort. I'm going to try some myself, soon. (Who is collecting the lyrics again??) And whoever did "Uknown Pleasures"-- WoW! It would have taken me forever to get all the background parts of Interzone! Ciao, Danno From @po2.andrew.cmu.edu:mw22+@andrew.cmu.edu Fri Nov 17 00:54:12 1989 From: Michael Alan Wertheim Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss lyrics? I just listened to "The Perfect Kiss", and I came to the same conclusion that Dan McKinnon came t: it's "precious own". Mike From Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Fri Nov 17 01:02:01 1989 From: Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss lyrics? --- Michael Alan Wertheim wrote: I just listened to "The Perfect Kiss", and I came to the same conclusion that Dan McKinnon came t: it's "precious own". Mike --- end of quoted material --- Lyric wars! My conclusion was that it was "pleasure zone." What I said was that I was sure it wasn't "precious ONE", and that the original lyric poster (not the original tune) said "precious own." Doesn't pleasure zone make sense? What else would you play with at home? :-) Here's a question: Blue Monday, toward the end. What should the following lines be: Thought I told you to me walked down to the beach Who's compiling lyric submissions? I promise I'll save the address this time... Ciao, Danno From sigma@pawl.rpi.edu Fri Nov 17 01:22:37 1989 From: Kevin J Martin Subject: More lyric wars... About Blue Monday lyrics: I had always assumed it was "Thought I told you to meet me When I walked down to the beach Tell me... how do I feel? Tell me now... how should I feel?" Is there no official source? Admittedly, such sources often don't jibe with what the singer actually sings; when I saw N.O. play in Atlanta on the Brotherhood tour (if it was actually called that), they changed around the lyrics as they saw fit. Of course, part of it could have been their utter frustration with technical problems; like mistiming of the sequencers on Face Up, or the bass coming unplugged from the amp during a *solo* on State of the Nation, or the opening of Love Vigilantes creating incredible feedback (good for a J&MC concert, maybe...). Anyway, Age of Consent had one clearly modified line: "You're not the type who needs to tell me... just what the f**k to do!" And Bernard didn't seemed pleased... Kevin Martin sigma@pawl.rpi.edu (Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean the whole world isn't out to get me) From jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu Fri Nov 17 01:52:09 1989 From: jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu (John N Trussell) Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss lyrics? [a bunch of pleasure zone/precious one/precious own stuff deleted] A few of my friends and I came up with "pleasure zone" independently of each other, so that's a couple more votes for that one. (i'm absolutely *certain*, but read the lyrics as what you want...i've been wrong.) > Here's a question: Here's an answer: :-) > Blue Monday, toward the end. What should the following lines be: > Thought I told you to me > walked down to the beach leave, and while. (I thought this was the case before, and i've also seen two live versions that definitely said those lyrics.) > Who's compiling lyric submissions? I promise I'll save the address this > time... I am (if I ever get any more) -- all I have is what's been made public already. address: jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu (internet) jtruss@wpi (BITNET) I'll pick up my self-made lyrics sheets over thanksgiving break... btw, did we ever clear up the "(turned enough/pretending not) to see his gun" controversy? I personally think it's "pretending not." Btw, keep working on "Doubts even here", I want those (there are a few of the ???'s I know, but not without listening, and it's 2:30am...it'll wait a day.) a couple others i have trouble with... "Sunrise" (especially the mumbled ones at the end) "Angel Dust" "Everything's Gone Green" "Ecstasy" (Just wondering, is he saying anything?) "The Him" and, if anyone has it, "Sunrise" (PFD 177 Version -- the lyrics are quite different.) thanks... ===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/=== john trussell "i don't believe in reincarnation because i refuse to come *************** back as a bug or as a rabbit!" jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu "you know, you're a real 'up' person." -- new order ******************** "i'm not paranoid, and i wish everyone would worcester, massahusetts stop trying to make me think so..." ===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/=== From pc20+@andrew.cmu.edu Fri Nov 17 09:18:29 1989 From: Peter Yung Chang Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss lyrics? I agree with Mike. I hear an 'r' that would be in "precious", not an 'l' that would be in "pleasure". In Blue Monday, it's When I... peech From angel@hoqub.att.com Fri Nov 17 18:46:47 1989 From: angel@hoqub.att.com >From: hoqub!angel (Angelique M Anderson +1 201 949 0523) Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss Lyrics? --- Michael Alan Wertheim wrote: I just listened to "The Perfect Kiss", and I came to the same conclusion that Dan McKinnon came t: it's "precious own". Mike --- end of quoted material --- Lyric wars! My conclusion was that it was "pleasure zone." What I said was that I was sure it wasn't "precious ONE", and that the original lyric poster (not the original tune) said "precious own." Doesn't pleasure zone make sense? What else would you play with at home? :-) Here's a question: Blue Monday, toward the end. What should the following lines be: Thought I told you to me walked down to the beach Who's compiling lyric submissions? I promise I'll save the address this time... Ciao, Danno Danno, I always thought it was pleasure zone too and for the same reasons! Later, Angel From kus3 Fri Nov 17 13:29:03 1989 From: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu (Bob Kusumoto) Subject: concerts and lyrics I've seen some tapes of NO live and in the earlier ones, Benard will get pissed off about various things and basically just make lyrics up as he goes along (at least lyrics that he thinks are part of the song). I'm sure there are numerous discrepencies wih each variation on the song. Bob -- Bob Kusumoto | Turned enough to see his gun, Internet: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu | I said, BITNET: kus3@tank.uchicago.bitnet | "Let's go out and have some fun." UUCP: {gargoyle,oddjob}!tank!kus3 | --- New Order, "Perfect Kiss" From jh5x+@andrew.cmu.edu Fri Nov 17 13:21:13 1989 From: James Burley Huber Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss lyrics? I've been following this because it is something I had a problem with when I first heard it and some of my friends said it was "pleasure zone". Here's my translation: "Tonight I should have stayed at home, playing with my precious son. He has always been so strange, I often thought he was deranged. Tending not to fear his gun, I said let's gop out and have some fun" Alright, I admit that I am still unsure, but since everyone else was venturing a version, I may as well add mine to the, um, confusion. Sorry, bad pun. :-) jd From @po3.andrew.cmu.edu:mw22+@andrew.cmu.edu Fri Nov 17 15:55:43 1989 From: Michael Alan Wertheim Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss lyrics? I tend to think it's "precious own". The next line starts with "He has always been so strange." I think "he" refers to "precious own". It wouldn't make much sense if "he" referred to "pleasure zone". But then again, none of these interpretations make much sense. Mike From 65869C@D1.dartmouth.edu Sat Nov 18 00:21:42 1989 Received: by D1.DARTMOUTH.EDU id <262581>; 18 Nov 89 01:18:58 From: 65869c@d1.dartmouth.edu (Anu) Subject: Lyrics and a secret. I think it's Pleasure zone...try listening to the 12" As for live concerts...I think that Mr. Sumner doesn't write down his lyrics... their lyrics, for the most part, aren't their strongest asset anyway. I think Mr. Sumner improvises them each time, or else writes them once and doesn't bother to memorize them...as a singer in a band, I know how this is. As for making sense, I don't think it's one of their concerns. I read in an early interview that they TRIED to write "intelligent" lyrics on MOVEMENT, but that they were dissatisfied with the results (esp. compared to Mr. Curtis' lyrics) and the album seemed forced. So, on PCL (their best, arguably), they just made up a bunch of nonsense. And that seemed to work, so they've been doing it ever since. There ARE some exceptions -- Blue Monday (about Ian's death) -- Leave Me Alone but for the most part I think that the lyrics are an afterthought...although on TECHNIQUE, where they actually have more normal pop song structures, they seem to be a little more developed. BY THE WAY: Has everyone discovered the reason for LOWLIFE's title? put your tape/record/cd on at the end of "the perfect kiss" and after the song has faded out and "this time of night" is about to start, TURN IT UP REALLY LOUD. You will hear someone say "I'm one of the few people who's lived what's called the 'Low-life'." Check it out. Anyone know who it is/where it's sampled from? From byron%soda.Berkeley.EDU@Berkeley.EDU Sat Nov 18 04:54:18 1989 From: byron%soda.Berkeley.EDU@berkeley.edu (Byron C. Go) Subject: Re: concerts and lyrics -- Bob Kusumoto | Turned enough to see his gun, Internet: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu | I said, BITNET: kus3@tank.uchicago.bitnet | "Let's go out and have some fun." UUCP: {gargoyle,oddjob}!tank!kus3 | --- New Order, "Perfect Kiss" shouldn't that be "pretending not to see his gun"? byron byron c go byron@QAL.Berkeley.EDU laba-3ag@web.berkeley.edu AB Economics '92 ...!ucbvax!QAL!byron ...!ucbvax!web!laba-3ag "it's just coincidence... i don't believe in it" - the chameleons, "tears" From @po5.andrew.cmu.edu:mw22+@andrew.cmu.edu Sat Nov 18 14:42:59 1989 From: Michael Alan Wertheim Subject: Re: Lyrics and a secret. > I think it's Pleasure zone...try listening to the 12" I did listen to the 12". In fact, I listened to it at normal speed and then at 8% slower. Just by listening to the how the words sounded (many times), I honestly could not tell if it was "pleasure zone" or "precious own". It doesn't matter too much because, as someone else pointed out, their lyrics aren't exactly set in stone. Different versions of the same song may have different lyrics. From kus3 Mon Nov 20 08:43:53 1989 From: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu (Bob Kusumoto) Subject: Perfect Kiss lyrics After about a decent 15 minutes of reviewing the song, I'm come to the conclusion that it is 'pleasure zone' and not 'precious one' (well, its bleeding hard to decipher those english accents when you don't know whats being said). Apart from that, I don't see any MAJOR problems with the lyrics I submitted (yes, I will stand behind my .sig). Well, are we all going to become fanatics and start playing all NO stuff super loud just to find really soft dubs put into their songs? Bob -- Bob Kusumoto | Turned enough to see his gun, Internet: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu | I said, BITNET: kus3@tank.uchicago.bitnet | "Let's go out and have some fun." UUCP: {gargoyle,oddjob}!tank!kus3 | --- New Order, "Perfect Kiss" From jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu Mon Nov 20 14:04:58 1989 From: jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu (John N Trussell) Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss lyrics > After about a decent 15 minutes of reviewing the song, I'm come to the > conclusion that it is 'pleasure zone' and not 'precious one' (well, its > bleeding hard to decipher those english accents when you don't know whats > being said). Apart from that, I don't see any MAJOR problems with the > lyrics I submitted (yes, I will stand behind my .sig). And i'll stand behind the other interpretation...oh well, personal taste... > Well, are we all going to become fanatics and start playing all NO stuff > super loud just to find really soft dubs put into their songs? What do you mean, 'start'? ;-) BTW, can you e-mail me the low-life lyrics in the archives? ******************************************************************************* john trussell jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu wpi, worcester, massachussetts (bitnet: jtruss@wpi) ******************************************************************************* "and all the people around me seem so glad to be here... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...such a strange day" -- new order, "truth" ******************************************************************************* From arthur@hsfalt.enet.dec.com Mon Nov 20 15:52:23 1989 From: arthur@hsfalt.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 20-Nov-1989 1525) Subject: The Revenge The single by The Revenge, Peter Hook's solo project is out in the U.K. or it was released today. Ed From arthur@hsfalt.enet.dec.com Mon Nov 20 16:41:29 1989 From: arthur@hsfalt.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 20-Nov-1989 1737) Subject: Cover versions of JD and NO songs.... Here's a small list of covers...can anyone add to it: "She's Lost Control" - Grace Jones "Isolation" - Dessau (sp?) "Love Will Tear Us Apart" - Swans "Love Will Tear Us Apart" (sort of) - Swinging Erudites "Ceremony"/"In A Lonely Place" - New Order (sort of covers... credited to JD) "Love Vigilantes" - Oyster Band Any obvious ones I'm missing? Ed From jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu Mon Nov 20 22:36:40 1989 From: jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu (John N Trussell) Subject: Re: Cover versions of JD and NO songs.... (i'm sending this as both a reply and a post...but my mailer-daemon doesn't like the lists address, so if this isn't posted, please post it for me...) > Here's a small list of covers...can anyone add to it: > > "She's Lost Control" - Grace Jones > "Isolation" - Dessau (sp?) > "Love Will Tear Us Apart" - Swans > "Love Will Tear Us Apart" (sort of) - Swinging Erudites > > "Ceremony"/"In A Lonely Place" - New Order (sort of covers... > credited to JD) Correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't IALP written as a 'eulogy' for Ian Curtis? > "Love Vigilantes" - Oyster Band > > > Any obvious ones I'm missing? Didn't someone mention a cover of "Bizarre Love Triangle" someone did on a compilation import CD on the Les Disques Du Cr....(forgot) label? I've seen the CD... ===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/=== john trussell "i don't believe in reincarnation because i refuse to come *************** back as a bug or as a rabbit!" jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu "you know, you're a real 'up' person." -- new order ******************** "i'm not paranoid, and i wish everyone would worcester, massahusetts stop trying to make me think so..." ===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/=== From 65869C@D1.dartmouth.edu Tue Nov 21 00:05:12 1989 From: 65869c@d1.dartmouth.edu (Anu) Subject: More covers and rip-offs. Don't forget PAUL YOUNG -- "Love Will Tear Us Apart" on NO PARLEZ, his first big LP. (the song is credited to "J. Division" on the record.) There was a band called GREY MARCH that used to do ONLY JD covers. Anyone know WHICH Grace Jones record that cover of SLC is on? don't forget the Cure's cover of Love Vigilantes -- "inbetween days" and New Order's cover of Just Like Heaven -- "All the way" And XYMOX's cover of True Faith -- "Imagination" From jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu Tue Nov 21 00:44:07 1989 From: jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu (John N Trussell) Subject: Re: low life Thanks for the lyrics, Bob. I, btw, am the one who is still waiting to go home and get my lyrics sheets for the NO songs I painstakingly made...i'll look over them and post them...first of all, i *love* low-life, and worked on almost all of these songs in my quest (or is it qwest...ouch, bad pun). These are my differences of opinion w/ the archives. Keep in mind: these are just suggestions to try to make the lyrics lists as accurate as possible...I'm not saying these are defintely correct... archive lines following '>'s... my lines within quotes... (!!!) means i'm all but *positive*... > Love Vigilantes > Well I saw just so brave your freedom we will save "With our soldiers so brave, your freedom we will save" (!!!) > Oh I flew through the sky my transvictions could not lie (umm, that could be right...I thought it was convictions, but I like this one better...provided someone could tell me what transvictions means...) > -------------------------------------------------------- > The Perfect Kiss > taking back a friend of mine suggested we go out together "then came by a friend of mine..." > turned enough to see his gun said let's go out and have some fun We've discussed this one before..."pretending not to..." is still my guess, but no big deal either way...I'm far from infallible... > I know you know we believe in the land of fun " ...love" > I have always through about staying here and go without "I have always thought about staying (in/here) and going out" (!!!) > tonight I should have stayed at home playing with my precious own the discussion continues...one vote for "...pleasure zone"...someone mentioned the "he" in this line: > he has always been so strange I often thought he was deranged but i think that refers to the aforementioned friend with the gun... > ---------------------------------------------------------- > This time of night > I've know from the start I've grown used to a wooden heart "I've known you from the start I've grown used to your wooden heart" (There are a lot of "you"s in the next lines...) > Now ypu must decide what good have I win nothing to hide "Now you must decide...what good's a lie when you've nothing to hide" (!!!) > Time we said goodbye bury your head I'm silent you'll cry " ...and silence your cry" > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Sunrise (LOTS of 'em with this one, one of my favorites on the album...i spent a *lot* of time working out these...) can i post an alternate set? I've been waiting to hear your voice for too long now One-way conversations do not work somehow Tell me how do you get your soul in touch with the one above When one-way conversations pay a price for the use of love I tried so hard last night...you would not talk to me I live with the fear of the few with the gift and I know what's going to be Why did you never speak my name in front of my family You gave me a gift that you then took away, I gave everything before Your name might be God but you don't say that fortune to me Your name might be God but you don't say that much to me We might be your black sheep but you forgot us a long time ago We might be your black sheep but its time you remembered us now As we spend our days together nothing could go wrong No one told the truth about it because they were so strong If you ever think of me, if you ever say my name If you (look/read) between the lines you'll hang your head in shame (i know the next line, but the tape is in my dorm...will post later) Whatever I have done for you (I've did for/I give you my) sympathy > ------------------------------------------------------ > Elegia (instr) > ---------------- > Sooner than you think > sweats his gut he needs no others "swears to God he needs no other" > but how can I am thought to be "but how can I afford to be" (!!!) > be here with you so jealously "here with you so carelessly" (???) > oh you know what I need [ah] yes you do " ...mean... " (???) > to I had the strength that be so much more useable "to buy a drink that is so much more amusable" > I think I go when it gets seasonable "I think I'll go there when it gets usable" > --------------------------------------------------------- > sub-culture > I like walking in the park when it gets late at night > I move round in the dark and leave when it gets light > I sit around by day tied up in chains so tight > these crazy words of mine so wrong they might be right " ...could... " > you realize you can't shop without someone else " ...show off... " (!!!) (That one took a long time, but i'm almost positive...he slurs it together) > they need what they can keep a choice that leaves them scarred " ...can't... " (!!!) > you won't even notice that you are alone " ...baby..." > ------------------------------------------------------- > Face up > I could stary you [hard on high] "at the start you had a heart" > I fish so low I feel so humble "I feel... " (Just a speech slur) ...whew... please comment, folks... ===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/=== john trussell "i don't believe in reincarnation because i refuse to come *************** back as a bug or as a rabbit!" jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu "you know, you're a real 'up' person." -- new order ******************** "i'm not paranoid, and i wish everyone would worcester, massahusetts stop trying to make me think so..." ===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/=== From eboneste@ccm.bbn.com Tue Nov 21 08:28:45 1989 From: "Elizabeth H. Bonesteel" Subject: My 2 cents Once more into the fray... I agree with John's differences of opinion with the archives, with the following exceptions: archive> taking back a friend of mine suggested we go out together john> "then came by a friend of mine..." "looking back a friend of mine..." john>We might be your black sheep but you forgot us a long time ago john>We might be your black sheep but its time you remembered us now I always thought it was "lost sheep". archive> be here with you so jealously john> "here with you so carelessly" (???) I've got to go with the archive on this one. archive> to I had the strength that be so much more useable john> "to buy a drink that is so much more amusable" "I had the strength that was so much more reasonable" said very very fast... archive> I think I go when it gets seasonable john> "I think I'll go there when it gets usable" "I think I'll go there when it gets seasonable" (Reminds me of Tom Lehrer, putting a few extra syllables into a line.) >please comment, folks... Oh, boy! LYRIC WARS!!! :-) Liz From jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu Tue Nov 21 11:36:05 1989 From: jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu (John N Trussell) Subject: Re: My 2 cents (i'm not sure my mailer daemon sent this to the list...if not, send it for me) > Once more into the fray... > > I agree with John's differences of opinion with the archives, with the > following exceptions: > > archive> taking back a friend of mine suggested we go out together > john> "then came by a friend of mine..." > "looking back a friend of mine..." ok, hadn't thought of that one...sound reasonable... > john>We might be your black sheep but you forgot us a long time ago > john>We might be your black sheep but its time you remembered us now > I always thought it was "lost sheep". oops, this is what i get for doing it without the cassette handy... the first one is "black sheep" and the SECOND is "lost sheep", i think... > archive> be here with you so jealously > john> "here with you so carelessly" (???) > I've got to go with the archive on this one. The more i think about it, the more i think you're right... (I knew there was a reason for the ???s) > archive> to I had the strength that be so much more useable > john> "to buy a drink that is so much more amusable" > "I had the strength that was so much more reasonable" said very very fast... Of all the lines, this was the least certain...i couldn't come up with much... but that makes sense... > archive> I think I go when it gets seasonable > john> "I think I'll go there when it gets usable" > "I think I'll go there when it gets seasonable" > (Reminds me of Tom Lehrer, putting a few extra syllables into a line.) Again, you're probably right... just trying to get the archives as accurate as possible... (btw, anyone got the lyrics to "In a Lonely Place," offhand?) ******************************************************************************* john trussell jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu wpi, worcester, massachussetts (bitnet: jtruss@wpi) ******************************************************************************* "and all the people around me seem so glad to be here... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...such a strange day" -- new order, "truth" ******************************************************************************* From kus3 Sat Nov 25 20:21:22 1989 From: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu (Bob Kusumoto) Subject: solo projects anyone out there know what the current situation is with Benard and Peter doing solo projects. I've heard enough about Benard and his group of well known artists who are helping him on his album, and I've seen the latest single/12" for Peter's first single, but is there anything else going on? Has Benard's solo album finally come out? When? Bob -- Bob Kusumoto | Turned enough to see his gun, Internet: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu | I said, BITNET: kus3@tank.uchicago.bitnet | "Let's go out and have some fun." UUCP: {gargoyle,oddjob}!tank!kus3 | --- New Order, "Perfect Kiss" From jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu Sun Nov 26 21:16:35 1989 From: jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu (John N Trussell) Subject: Eureka! Aha! I have just returned from break with an almost completed set of lyrics sheets. (Ok, maybe "almost complete" is an exaggeration...it'll be a few more days at least.) I am currently attempting to complete them, but there are a few phrases (to be posted later...like, in a couple hours or so) that I simply *can not* decipher and a few that I came up with something for, but don't think are correct...anyone who has any clue what these may be, please give me some help... The "finished" list will include the 6 albums (Movement -- Power, Corruption & Lies -- Low-Life -- Brotherhood -- Substance -- Technique) as well as the 2 Peel Sessions, "1963," and "Touched by the Hand of God." (The only B-sides I have...) If anyone has any other songs to add, send 'em...keeping in mind that I don't have them... BTW, I'm not redoing the JD lyrics...the ones I saw looked quite good, so I'm going to finish these before attempting any fine-tuning of them. Any comments? suggestions? hate mail?...(large monetary contributions??) ===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/=== john trussell "i don't believe in reincarnation because i refuse to come *************** back as a bug or as a rabbit!" jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu "you know, you're a real 'up' person." -- new order ******************** "i'm not paranoid, and i wish everyone would worcester, massahusetts stop trying to make me think so..." ===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/===/=== From jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu Sun Nov 26 23:11:35 1989 From: jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu (John N Trussell) Subject: PC&L lyrics (At last!) New Order Power, Corruption & Lies +Age of Consent --- -- ------- Won't you please let me go These words lying inside they hurt me so And I'm not the kind that likes to tell you Just what I want to do I'm not the kind that needs to tell you Just what you want me to I saw you this morning I thought that you might like to know I recieved your message and for a few days ago I understood every word that it said And now that I've actually heard it you're going to regret And I'm not the kind that likes to tell you Just what you want me to You're not the kind that needs to tell me About the birds and the bees Do you find this happens all the time Crucial point one day becomes a crime And I'm not the kind that likes to tell you Just what I want to do I'm not the kind that needs to tell you... Lost you I've lost you I've lost you I've lost you I've lost you Lost you I've lost you I've lost you I've lost you I've lost you Lost you I've lost you I've lost you I've lost you I've lost you Lost you I've lost you I've lost you I've lost you I've lost you +We All Stand -- --- ----- Three miles to go Three miles to go At the end of the road There's a soldier waiting for me I've got three miles to go Three miles to go At the end of the road There's a soldier waiting for me At the end of the road At the end of the road At the end of the road The night goes on In this real-life fantasy Forever to be still Breath held tight inside of me The night goes on In this real-life fantasy Forever to be still Breath held tight inside of me The night goes On and on It's a red sky tonight It's a red sky tonight At the end of the road Where all futures go At the end of the road There's a soldier waiting for me He's got three miles to go Three miles to go At the end of the road At the end of the road There's blood on shore The night goes on In this real-life fantasy Forever to be still Breath held tight inside of me The night goes on In this real-life fantasy Forever to be still Breath held tight inside of me The night goes on In this real-life fantasy Forever to be still Breath held tight inside of me... +The Village --- ------- When a new life turns towards you And the night becomes the day We shall remain forever Everyone who meets his way Oh our love is like the flowers The rain the sea and the hours Oh our love is like the flowers The rain the sea and the hours When the rain falls to the sea They'll be waiting for you and for me And the sky reflects our image Shines deep right through our lives Oh our love is like the earth The sun the trees and the birth Oh our love is like the earth The sun the trees and the birth I am still here two days later Same place same time And I'm stuck here two years too long Same place the wrong time Oh our love is like the flowers The rain the sea and the hours Oh our love is like the flowers The sun the sea and the hours Their love died three years ago These broken words they cannot show +5 8 6 - - - I see danger...danger...danger On the corner sent by me Shadows the ways Straight away you ran from me Heard you calling Yes I heard you calling Heard you calling Yes I heard you calling I hear silence I hear silence in my heart >From a distance Turn your back and run from me Heard you calling Yes I heard you calling Heard you calling Yes I heard you calling When it happens You will be no friend of mine Take the first chance When I am no longer free Heard you calling Yes I heard you calling Heard you calling Yes I heard you calling In the future When you want me in your heart I won't be there If you call out in the dark Heard you calling Yes I heard you calling Heard you calling Oh yes I heard you...heard you...heard you...heard you calling Can you hear me deep inside >From these feelings I can't hide Can you hear me deep inside >From these feelings I can't hide oh (Can you hear me calling you) Can you hear me deep inside (Can you hear me calling you) From these feelings I can't hide Can you hear me calling you Can you hear me calling you Can you hear me calling you Can you hear me calling you +Blue Monday ---- ------ How does it feel To treat me like you do When you've laid your hands upon me And told me who you are Thought I was mistaken I thought I heard your words Tell me how do I feel Tell me now how do I feel Those who came before me Lived through their vocations >From the past until completion They'll turn away no more And I still find it so hard To say what I need to say But I'm quite sure that you'll tell me Just how I should feel today I see a ship in the harbor I can and shall obey But if it wasn't for your misfortune I'd be a heavenly person today And I thought I was mistaken And I thought I heard you speak Tell me how do I feel Tell me now how should I feel Now I stand here waiting... I thought I told you to leave me While I walked down to the beach Tell me how does it feel When your heart grows cold +Your Silent Face ---- ------ ---- Thought that never changes remains a stupid lie It's never been quite the same No hearing or breathing no movement no color Just silence Rise and fall of shame Search that shall remain We asked you what you'd seen You said you didn't care Sound formed in a vacuum may seem a waste of time It's always been just the same No hearing no breathing no movement no lyrics Just nothing Sign that leads the way Path we cannot take You've caught me at a bad time So why don't you piss off +Ultraviolence ------------- Who saw those dark eyes Who saw those dark eyes Years gone by Deep within Burned my skin All those years gone by Who felt those cold hands Who felt those cold hands Touched my skin Deep within Burned my soul Down to the ground where I was found All those years ago All those years ago All those years Ago Everybody makes mistakes Everybody makes mistakes Even me Just be free This is the place where in the end It happens in our world within Time to go Time to go +Ecstasy ------- (Indecipherable) +Leave Me Alone ----- -- ----- On a thousand islands in the sea I see ta thousand people just like me A hundred unions in the snow I watch them walking falling in a row We live always underground It's gonna be so quiet in here tonight There's a thousand islands in the sea It's a shame And a hundred years ago a sailor Trod this ground I stood upon Take me away everyone When it looks down >From my head to my toes from the words in the book I see a vision that would bring me luck >From my head to my toes through my teeth through my nose You get these words wrong You get these words wrong Every time You get these words wrong I just smile But from my head to my toes from my knees to my eyes Every time I watch the sky For these last few days leave me alone But for these last few days leave me alone Leave me alone Leave me alone +The Beach --- ----- (Remix of Blue Monday -- lyric fragments only) ...Treat me like you do... ...Thought I was mistaken... ...Thought I heard your words... ...Now how do I feel... ...Still find it so hard... ...But I'm quite sure that you'll tell me... ...Just how I should feel today... ...Tell me now how should I feel... ...When your heart grows cold... From jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu Sun Nov 26 23:18:20 1989 From: jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu (John N Trussell) Subject: Just a little bit of needed info... As you see, the _Power, Corruption & Lies_ lyrics are ready. Feel free to suggest alternate lines to these...but I'm pretty sure these are right -- with a few possible exceptions. Tell me, do these look right? And, BTW: A friend of mine has informed me that in an article on _Substance_ Rolling Stone (all biases aside) made a direct quote from "Perfect Kiss" which was: "Tonight I should have stayed at home / Playing with my pleasure zone." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ He believed it was an end-of-the-year issue...but he wasn't sure. (This was discussed during a car ride to Portland, ME...give the guy a break.) But it is an "official" source, or as close to it as possible. But, anyway, here are what I need help with. Age of Consent -------------- I saw you this morning I thought that you might like to know I RECIEVED YOUR MESSAGE AND FOR A FEW DAYS AGO (???) I understood every word that it said And now that I've actually heard it you're going to regret Ecstasy ------- Any and all lyrics... The Village ----------- We shall remain forver EVERYONE WHO MEETS HIS WAY (???) ******************************************************************************* john trussell jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu wpi, worcester, massachussetts (bitnet: jtruss@wpi) ******************************************************************************* "and all the people around me seem so glad to be here... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...such a strange day" -- new order, "truth" ******************************************************************************* From fowler@pentode.eng.ohio-state.edu Mon Nov 27 17:43:45 1989 From: james e fowler >And, BTW: A friend of mine has informed me that in an article on _Substance_ >Rolling Stone (all biases aside) made a direct quote from "Perfect Kiss" >which was: >"Tonight I should have stayed at home / Playing with my pleasure zone." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I have seen this quote in Rolling Stone too. However, the writer of the article is probably no better informed than we are as to the true lyric..... Jim fowler@cis.ohio-state.edu From stus5239@fredonia.Fredonia.EDU Mon Nov 27 10:03:52 1989 From: stus5239@fredonia.fredonia.edu (Kevin Stussman) sunybcs!D1.dartmouth.edu!65869C@fredonia.Fredonia.EDU Subject: Re: More covers and rip-offs. The Cure's LP "Head on the Door" (I dont think) copied anything off of Low Life. They totally ripped off Movement. Just listen to "In Between days" and "Dreams Never End". Almost identical. (Alot of record reviewers noted this similarity as well). Other News: ---------- New Order just released "Sister Ray" on a Compilation LP called "I want to make you come" (I think) The LP includes songs by Karen Finley, PMS, etc... Anyone have it yet? From jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu Mon Nov 27 18:29:10 1989 From: jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu (John N Trussell) Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss...Round 6... > >And, BTW: A friend of mine has informed me that in an article on _Substance_ > >Rolling Stone (all biases aside) made a direct quote from "Perfect Kiss" > >which was: > > >"Tonight I should have stayed at home / Playing with my pleasure zone." > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > I have seen this quote in Rolling Stone too. However, the writer of the > article is probably no better informed than we are as to the true > lyric..... I'm not sure...it seems like they probably would have asked the band... Let's face it, that's not the kind of line that they'd just assume was right. (We're certainly not...) To be honest, I think it makes a lot more sense than "precious own," anyhow...just one guy's humble (yeah, right) opinion. BTW, the other albums' lyrics are being worked on...substance'll probably be next, it's closest to being done right now. ******************************************************************************* john trussell jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu wpi, worcester, massachussetts (bitnet: jtruss@wpi) ******************************************************************************* "and all the people around me seem so glad to be here... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...such a strange day" -- new order, "truth" ******************************************************************************* From schwager@cs.uiuc.edu Mon Nov 27 23:28:03 1989 From: Michael Schwager Subject: Re: Perfect Kiss Lyrics Just to add my little $0.02 to the 'pleasure zone'/'precious one' discussion (WARNING: REALLY NASTY, SEXUAL-TYPE WORDS UP AHEAD. CHILDREN UNDER 4 FEET TALL, PREGNANT OR NURSING WOMEN, OLDER FOLKS, PEOPLE WEARING PACEMAKERS AND OTHERS FAINT-OF-HEART, AND BORN-AGAIN CHRISTIANS ARE ADVISED TO STAND CLEAR [are there *any* of those on this mailing list??]). Anyway, now that I've offended small children, A friend of mine, New Order/Joy Division fanatic extraordinaire (he's got bootlegs of all kinds of shows- some I didn't even know existed :-), first told me that the lyrics were "pleasure zone". I thought it was "flashes on" or something equally ridiculous like this. I had no idea. When he told me it was 'pleasure zone', I said, "No Way!" And he says, "Yeah. And as a matter of fact, when New Order played the local Chicago area outdoor music theater, they sang: Tonight I should have stayed at home, playing with my BIG FAT COCK!" (emphasis theirs, apparently) This got quite the round of applause from the crowd, as you can well imagine. -Mike From sigma@pawl.rpi.edu Wed Nov 29 23:38:12 1989 From: Kevin J Martin Subject: What else? Seen in a listing of science-fiction-related music: >Joy Division: >"V for Vendetta", an Alan Moore story by one of the members of J.D. Anyone know what they're talking about - The song/story, I mean; I know who Alan Moore is... Kevin Martin sigma@pawl.rpi.edu From arthur@hsfalt.enet.dec.com Thu Nov 30 12:57:44 1989 From: arthur@hsfalt.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 30-Nov-1989 0854) Subject: Jesus I Love You "Jesus I Love You" is the name of the single by the Revenge, Peter Hook's solo effort. I heard it last night...I thought it was quite good... Anyone else hear it? Is it out on CD yet? Ed From arthur@hsfalt.enet.dec.com Thu Nov 30 13:59:21 1989 From: arthur@hsfalt.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 30-Nov-1989 1426) Subject: This just in too... Hi again, ELECTRONIC featuring Bernard Sumner, Johnny Marr, and Neil Tennant release their first single on Monday entitled "Getting Away With It", it is backed with a track called "Lucky Bag" ... an Electronic Lp should see the light of day in late spring of next year. That thanks to a friend of mine called the Grebo Guru who reads NME religiously! Ed From starr-page@YALE.ARPA Thu Nov 30 14:04:39 1989 From: Page Starr Subject: V for Vendetta V for Vendetta was a comic book series (~8 issues) about life in a fascist England in the not-too-distant future. The hero of the story dresses up as Guy Fawkes and terrorizes the government. It's quite good. I don't know anything about the Joy Division angle, however. -Page starr@cs.yale.edu From: James Burley Huber Subject: Re: Eureka! I was going through a collection of a friend and I found something that really surprised me. NO does about five songs on the soundtrack of the movie "Salvation". I have no idea what the movie's about, but it has something to do with televangelism. The five songs include the title track "Salvation" and "Touched by the Hand of God". There's some other songs, but my mind's drawing a blank. Anyways, the album is available in most record stores that I've been to, but I don't have the cash flow to buy it yet. My friend has a pirated copy that isn't too good, so I don't want to tape it off her. There you are. A little tidbit for the Holiday gift lists. Santa (psyche, I'm just a jd) From: Michael Alan Wertheim Subject: Re: Eureka! Salvation soundtrack contents: Side A: New Order Salvation Theme Jumpin' Jesus You Can't Blackmail Jesus Cabaret Voltaire Twanky Party New Order Touched by the Hand of God Dominique Play the Beat The Hood Nightmare Side B: New Order Let's Go The Hood Salvation! Have You said Your Prayers Today Arthur Baker Come On New Order Sputnik Cabaret Voltaire Jesus Saves New Order Skullcrusher Dominique Destroy All Evil The soundtrack is copyright 1988, Giant Records From: Jeffrey Stout Subject: Re: Eureka! > Salvation soundtrack contents: And on the import CD (or is it just the Canadian version?): New Order Touched by the Hand of God (12" version) is tacked on the end. The package is completely different, appearance-wise. From: stus5239@fredonia.fredonia.edu (Kevin Stussman) Subject: Re: Eureka! This sountrack is to the movie Salvation by Beth B. (starring Exene from X) The soundtrack also features tracks from Throbbing Gristle (Sp?), Arthur Baker (New Order's old Re-Mixing buddy), Dancing Hoods, and Cabaret Voltaire. This was released about 1yr 1/2 ago and the single (import only) followed. It was finally released on Blue Monday 1988 b side domestically. The import 12" has Touched by the Hand of God/ Touched by the Hand of Dub. The single is available on CD and is definately worth searching for. It has a rare remix of confusion (not on any LP) and the regular version of Temptation. Words of advice: This soundtrack is not worth it. The other songs on the LP are about 2 minutes long and really only are relevent to the movie (mood setting stuff). The only good songs on it are Salvation Theme, and Touched. Kevin P.s. Anything about Sister Ray yet? (The New N.O. Single?) Subject: Salvation Soundtrack BEWARE! Just in case nobody has said this yet....... Don't buy Salvation!!! First off the version of Touched by the hand of God is not the same version as released on the 12" and CD single. Save your pennies and by the real Factory CD single that comes in that nice cardboard jewel box (The only drawback) The rest of the New Order stuff seems to be outtakes or something of little value just like that. The rest of the music is not too hot either even the Cabaret Voltaire stuff sounds like outtakes I never heard a bad Cab Volt song until I heard this album.... Anybody see the movie? I hope it was better then the soundtrack.... _Jim From: Kevin J Martin Subject: Salvation & Confusion About Salvation: I *have* seen it, about three times now. It's pretty surreal and good if you're in a weird mood. The star televangelist has some good lines, some confusing personality disorders (first he's holy then psychotic then sexually ravenous and depraved), and an excellent parody of how ridiculous the whole televangelism scam can be. It's fun; worth renting. And I didn't think the soundtrack was *that* bad; the New Order was the best, although the mix of Touched By The Hand Of God is possibly the weakest I could imagine; almost as bad as the seven inch of True Faith. No, worse actually. About The TBTHOG CD Single: Does this unusual version of Confusion happen to coincide with any of the versions on the rare Fact 93 12"? I had to go to a used records shop in London to get this, and even then it was about seven dollars for one in average condition. Confusion (rough mix) is the most original, but I had always thought that the CD single of TBTHOG had Confused Beats. Anyone? Kevin Martin sigma@pawl.rpi.edu "You should hear our version of Louie, Louie..." - Ian, Sister Ray live From: Peter Yung Chang Subject: Salvation & Touched The mix of Touched on CD single is definitely WAY better than the one on Salvation. The mix of Confusion is also WAY cool... peech From: Peter Yung Chang Subject: Re: Salvation & Confusion The mix on the CD single (Facd 193) is Confusion Dub 1987. I don't know about the rare Fac 12", so I can't tell ya.... peech From: arthur@hsfalt.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 12-Dec-1989 1200) Subject: Electronic Single... Hi, Anyone heard the single or anything about it...I'll pass this along, a 5 second review from a friend of mine in the UK... >>>I like the Electronic single, bit middle of the road maybe, but enjoyable all >>>the same. Anyone? Ed From: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu (Bob Kusumoto) Subject: forwarded mail just for the record, to send mail to the list, send it to: ceremony@tank.uchicago.edu --- Forwarded mail from "-----> Dave" >From komatsu%aludra.usc.edu@usc.edu Tue Dec 12 19:04:09 1989 From: "-----> Dave" Subject: Electronic.... (Can you please send me mail on how to post directly to the mailing list. Please also forward this) I heard the ELECTRONIC single last night on KROQ's import tunes (Los Angeles). The lead singer is Summers with Tennent backing. To me it sounded a lot like ROUND & ROUND yet it contained a distinct PSB sound to it. I loved the single and now I am looking for it. Unfortunately by the time a found a blank tape the song was about over. According to Swedish Egil an album is scheduled for January. Off hand I do not recall the the title of the song... More information to come later... I even jotted down a couple line of lyrics. -----> Dave komatsu@aldura.usc.edu --- End of forwarded message from "-----> Dave" From: Michael Alan Wertheim Subject: Re: Electronic Single... I got it today. Bernard doing vocals, Johnny Marr doing guitar, plus strings in the background. The song is called "Getting Away with It". Its main drawback is that it reminds me of "Love My Way" by the Psychedlic Furs. Mr. Disco From: Fleur Diana Dragan Subject: NO in concert This is sort of late, but..... I've seen New Order in concert twice, both rather recently. (last 3 years) I've also seen some live footage, and the reason they're so bad a lot of the time is that their drugged out of their fucking minds. What do you think True Faith is about. This is not to say that I don't like them, I've seen them twice, but don't romanticize them too much. Fleur fd0o+@andrew.cmu.edu From: Michael Alan Wertheim Subject: fac 193 Does anyone have the Factory version of the "Touched by the hand of God" 12"? mw From: kjm%ukc.ac.uk@NSFNET-RELAY.AC.UK Subject: Re: fac 193 >Does anyone have the Factory version of the "Touched by the hand of God" >12"? Yeah. What do you want to know about it? It's got the extended version of TBTHOG (about 7:00 I think) and the dub version. There's a rarer CD single version as well, which contains the extended version as well as Confusion '87 dub ( the only place you can get this) and the original 12" mix of Temptation (it's only appearance on CD anywhere). Kenny -- i wrote for luck they sent me you i sip the juice you give me poison From: Peter Yung Chang Subject: Re: fac 193 I can't tell the difference between the Substance version and the Fac 193 version, either. Basically, Mike wanted to know if he could get the Confusion 87 Dub on vinyl... peech From: Michael Alan Wertheim Subject: Re: fac 193 I asked because I was wondering if the Confusion remix that is on the CD is also on the 12". Also, the CD incorrectly says that it has the original version of Temptation. It really has the 1987 Substance version. From: larryg@bigtime.fidonet.org (Larry Gilbert) Subject: Re: fac 193 Michael Alan Wertheim writes: > Does anyone have the Factory version of the "Touched by the hand of > God" 12"? Kenny writes: > extended version of TBTHOG ... and the dub version. > There's a rarer CD single version as well, which [also] contains ... > Confusion '87 dub ( the only place you can get this) and the original > 12" mix of Temptation (it's only appearance on CD anywhere). I've got this CD, and I'm pretty sure that the version of "Temptation" is identical to the cut on the _Substance_ CD. (Unless, perhaps, the Qwest and Factory releases of _Substance_ differ?) -- Larry Gilbert, larryg@bigtime.fidonet.org, 1:152/201, +1 503 753 3511 (bbs) "Coming to you live and direct from Big Time Television." From: Rudolf Hersen Subject: Re: fac 193 >>Does anyone have the Factory version of the "Touched by the hand of God" >>12"? > >Yeah. What do you want to know about it? It's got the extended version of >TBTHOG (about 7:00 I think) and the dub version. > >There's a rarer CD single version as well, which contains the extended >version as well as Confusion '87 dub ( the only place you can get this) and >the original 12" mix of Temptation (it's only appearance on CD anywhere). Trouble is, I can't tell the difference between the FACD193 version of Temptation and the Substance version. From: Michael Alan Wertheim Subject: Arthur Baker OK. Here's an interesting little tidbit.... Factory owns the rights to release all New Order songs in the UK, but they always sell the American rights to an American label. This label is usually Qwest. But Confusion was released in the U.S. on Arthur Baker's label Streetwise. (Streetwise is no longer around, but Arthur Baker still has the American rights to all of Streetwise's songs.) When Factory released Substance, they could have put all the original singles on it. But in the U.S., Arthur Baker refused to give Qwest permission to release Confusion. This, supposedly, is the reason why Qwest remixed Confusion for Substance. Then Factory used this remix on the UK version just to keep the two albums identical. If all this is true (is it?), then why did they remix Temptation? What U.S. label released Temptation? Anyway, my theory is that when the time is right, i.e. when New Order has a top-10 song in the U.S., Arthur Baker will re-release Confusion. Of course, he will sell a lot more if he does some new remixes of it, which he obviously has the right to do; he did it on the original Streetwise 12".) The other huge new-wave song on the Streetwise label was Dominatrix's "The Dominatrix Sleeps Tonight". I suspect this will also be re-released. All of this is based on word of mouth, by the way.... Mike From: frazer@dtg.nsc.com (Andy Frazer) Subject: Re: NO in concert >I've also seen some live footage, and the reason they're so bad a lot of the >time is that their drugged out of their fucking minds. What do you think >True Faith is about. Do these guys really do drugs while they are performing? They look so straight that I thought they never did (real) drugs. Are you just speculating or do you really know something about this? Andy Frazer National Semiconductor Corp. frazer@dtg.nsc.com From: Jeffrey Stout Subject: Re: NO in concert, and an EP question >>>I've also seen some live footage, and the reason they're so bad a lot of the >>>time is that their drugged out of their fucking minds. What do you think >>>True Faith is about. >>Do these guys really do drugs while they are performing? They look so >>straight that I thought they never did (real) drugs. Are you just >>speculating or do you really know something about this? I wouldn't use the word "straight" -- "bored" would be a better description. Or maybe they're heavily into taking depressants before performing? :-) >Is the "1981-1982" available at all on CD? Yes. I got mine in Calgary, but I haven't seen it domestically. From: Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: NO in concert, and an EP question >>I've also seen some live footage, and the reason they're so bad a lot of the >>time is that their drugged out of their fucking minds. What do you think >>True Faith is about. >Do these guys really do drugs while they are performing? They look so >straight that I thought they never did (real) drugs. Are you just >speculating or do you really know something about this? Someone told me "Sub-culture" was about drugs and the band's addictions. I have no idea, though. Is the "1981-1982" available at all on CD? If it's an import (from Factory), I have a few ways to try to track down a copy. I just want to know if it's pointless before I start trying. Ciao, Danno From: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu (Bob Kusumoto) Subject: Re: NO in concert, and an EP question On Dec 18, 18:49, Daniel.F.McKinnon.III@mac.dartmouth.edu wrote: } Is the "1981-1982" available at all on CD? If it's an import (from Factory), } I have a few ways to try to track down a copy. I just want to know if it's } pointless before I start trying. There's a special edition Canadian version (FEP 313?) in a test of their 1/3 sized jewel cases (I guess they want to gauge the reaction of Canadian buyers of 1/3 sized jewel cases). It has special price listed all over it but not on the cover itself. It cost me $15 in the states. If you need to mail order it, call Turntable, (708) 519-9090 (they ship UPS anywhere). (btw, this same store usually can get import Factory stuff, I just picked up the new Peter Hook (Revenge?) cd single and the new Electronic cd single there yesterday. Lots of CD singles in the store, call and ask them if you're interested in a picking up import cd singles from a particular group). Bob From: Steve Baumgarten Subject: NO in concert, and an EP question >>Is the "1981-1982" available at all on CD? > Yes. I got mine in Calgary, but I haven't seen it domestically. I've seen it, but didn't think to pick it up at the time. The place where I saw it isn't noted for having hard-to-find discs, so it's probably generally available. - Steve Subject: Arthur Baker > Anyway, my theory is that when the time is right, i.e. when New Order has > a top-10 song in the U.S., Arthur Baker will re-release Confusion. Of > course, he will sell a lot more if he does some new remixes of it, which he > obviously has the right to do; he did it on the original Streetwise 12".) > The other huge new-wave song on the Streetwise label was Dominatrix's > "The Dominatrix Sleeps Tonight". I suspect this will also be re-released. He also did this with Blue Monday, which was remixed and rereleased as "Blue Monday 1988". It's an inferior mix to the original Blue Monday remix (and of course the packaging isn't as good -- the original Blue Monday came in a record sleeve that was designed to look like a floppy disk, complete with an oval cutout where the disk drive head would go!). I'm not sure NO will ever have a top-ten hit, the top-ten being what it is. Milli-Vanilli they ain't... I think Blue Monday 1988 was mostly done to hype the release of Substance, which came out at the same time. In fact, the liner notes say "From the album Substance". Also, it helped get NO back into the mainstream clubs at the time. Of coures, with Technique, NO doesn't have any trouble getting club play even in strictly mainstream clubs. - Steve From: Michael Alan Wertheim Subject: Re: Arthur Baker Arthur Baker doesn't own any rights to Blue Monday. And he wasn't the one responsible for Blue Monday 1988. Interestingly, around the time Blue Monday 1988 was released, Qwest released a 12-inch with Touched on one side and the ORIGINAL Blue Monday on the other. Many clubs started to play the original Blue Monday instead of the new one. mw From: Michael Alan Wertheim Subject: Re: Arthur Baker > Milli Vanilli they ain't... Yeah, but Love and Rockets, the Cure, and the B-52s have all had TOP TEN songs. From: arthur@hsfalt.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 19-Dec-1989 0906) Subject: 1981-1982 EP FYI, the 1981-1982 EP was readily available in Scotland last month although I have never seen it for sale in the US... Ed Subject: Arthur Baker > Arthur Baker doesn't own any rights to Blue Monday. And he wasn't the one > responsible for Blue Monday 1988. Well, that may be, but he certainly had a mix on the 12". The B-Side mix. The A-Side was John Potoker and Quincy Jones, I think. I couldn't think of any other mixes he'd done for them, except for the one we were discussing, so I assumed the circumstances were the same. > Interestingly, around the time Blue Monday 1988 was released, Qwest released > a 12-inch with Touched on one side and the ORIGINAL Blue Monday on the other. > Many clubs started to play the original Blue Monday instead of the new one. Yeah, I remember this. I was glad they did, since it's a better mix all around and holds up well. - Steve From: Carl Noseworthy Subject: Blue Monday/Substance >I think Blue Monday 1988 was mostly done to hype the release of >Substance, which came out at the same time. In fact, the liner notes >say "From the album Substance". Also, it helped get NO back into the >mainstream clubs at the time. Of coures, with Technique, NO doesn't >have any trouble getting club play even in strictly mainstream clubs. > >- Steve The official name of Substance is 'SUBSTANCE 1987', isn't it? If so, then Blue Monday 1988 came *AFTER* (As in a year) Substance. I can't really see it being used to hype up an album that had been released a year ago. It's usually done the other way around, like with 'Fine Time' & 'Technique'. It was probably just released to keep fans happy until the release of Technique (and of course, to make more money :-). Carl Noseworthy From: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu (Bob Kusumoto) Subject: some little known information found this while cleaning out my directories, thought you'd might be interested in it: From: mike_m@apollo.COM (Mike Machnik) Subject: Joy Division/New Order groove messages & original titles This is a list of original titles from Joy Division & New Order (the ones I know of). Many JD songs started out with different titles (Incubation & A Means To An End even switched titles at one point). Perhaps the biggest flap occurred over Decades; one reviewer had received a cassette copy of the LP (Closer) prior to its release on which Decades was named Cross of Iron. When the LP was released after Ian's death, it looked as if the title had been changed to remove any connection between Ian & Christ (also because of the Nazi rumors - Iron Cross). Actually, the renaming had taken place prior to Ian's death, according to the book _An Ideal For Living_. Joy Division Decades - Cross of Iron Incubation - Cross of Iron Incubation - A Means To An End A Means To An End - Incubation New Order Chosen Time - Death Rattle Denial - Little Dead Doubts Even Here - Tiny Tim Hurt - Cramp In A Lonely Place - Little Boy Temptation - Taboo No. 7 Power, Corruption & Lies (LP) - How Does It Feel Your Silent Face - KW-1 (Kraftwerk 1) Ultraviolence - Who Killed My Father (this was QUICKLY renamed) Leave Me Alone - Only the Lonely Following is a list of the inner groove messages that appear on the JD and early NO records. I believe the catalog numbers and release dates are mostly correct (U.K. unless noted). Joy Division Run-off Groove Messages ------------------------------------ _An Ideal For Living_ (EP) Anonymous Records (ANON1), Oct 78 Songs: Warsaw, No Love Lost, Leaders of Men, Failures A: "Don't ever let it fade away" B: "Feel it closing in" (both from Digital) _Unknown Pleasures_ (LP) FACT 10, June 79 A: "This is the way" B: "Step inside" (both from Atrocity Exhibition) _Unknown Pleasures_ (LP) FACTUS 1 (U.S.) A: "This is the way" (A.E.) B: "I've been looking for a guide" (Disorder) _Earcom 2: Contradiction_ (Compilation 12") FAST 9B, 1979 "Hey Peel, kick out the jams" JD tracks: Auto-suggestion; From Safety To Where...? Also features Basczax, Thursdays _"Transmission" b/w "Novelty"_ 7" FAC 13, Oct 79 A: "And how I'll never know" B: "Just why or understand" (both from She's Lost Control) 12" FAC 13.12, Dec 80? A: "I've seen the real atrocities" B: "Buried in the sand" (Ice Age) _"Love Will Tear Us Apart" b/w "These Days" & "LWTUA" (alt. vers.)_ 7" FAC 23, Apr 80 A: "Don't disillusion me" B: "I've only got record shops left" 12" FAC 23.12, Jun 80 A: "Pure spirit" B: "Spectacle is a ritual" _Closer_ (LP) FACT 25/FACTUS 6 (U.S.), Jul 80 "Old Blue" _"She's Lost Control" b/w "Atmosphere"_ 12" FACTUS 2, Sep 80 A: "Here are the young men" B: "But where have they been" (both from Decades) _Still_ (LP) FACT 40, Nov 81 A: "The chicken won't stop" B: chicken tracks C: chicken tracks D: "The chicken stops here" Early New Order Run-off Groove Messages --------------------------------------- _"Ceremony" b/w "In A Lonely Place"_ 7" FAC 33, Jan 81 A: "Watching Forever" B: "How I Wish You Were Here With Me Now" (In A Lonely Place) 12" FAC 33.12, Mar 81 A: "Watching love grow - forever" B: "How I Wish We Were Here With You Now" (In A Lonely Place) _"Ceremony" b/w "In A Lonely Place"_ 12" FAC 33/12, Jul 81 A: "This is why events unnerve me" B: "How I Wish We Were Here With You Now" (In A Lonely Place) _"Procession" b/w "Everything's Gone Green"_ 7" FAC 53, Sep 81 A: "Soft" B: "Hard" _"Everything's Gone Green" b/w "Cries and Whispers" & "Mesh"_ 12" FBNL 8, Dec 81 A: "Why did Regulus go back to Rome?" _"Temptation" b/w "Hurt"_ FAC 63, Apr 82 7": 'Listen to the 12" ' 12": 'What do you think? ' If you have any additions/corrections to make to this, please send them to me. Thanks. From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 21-Dec-1989 1221) Subject: Compliments of MattyB... New Order release - Run 2 12" (500 copies) tracks : a.."Run 2" - Slighlty different to Run. a.."Run 2" (Extended Version) - Different rhythm. b.."MTO" - drum machine and a bass. b.."MTO" (Minus Mix) - Perfect dance track. I suggest if you like New Order's dance stuff, you buy this for the b-side. From: Greg (G.T.) Ward Subject: Confusion No, not the song. I'm confused about something, and was wondering if someone could help. This may be common knowlegde, in which case I appologize for my ignorance. About four years ago I borrowed the 1981-82 EP from a friend. As I recall, there were five songs on it: Everything's Gone Green, Temptation, Procession, Mesh and Hurt. I thought I recorded four of these, omitting Hurt as I didn't like it at the time. Just recently I borrowed Substance on CD and was quite surprised upon listening to it to discover that the song I had recorded four years ago and labelled as "Mesh", was not the same song that appears under the same title on Substance. At first I thought I might have mixed up Mesh and Hurt when labelling the tape, but when I listened to Hurt on Substance this theory was disproven: Hurt is also a different song from what I have on tape. So, what I want to know is: what song do I have on tape? I can think of several possibilities: the songs "Mesh" on the EP and Substance are different, there is a sixth song on the EP which I taped but mislabelled as "Mesh", I taped a song from a B-side or somewhere and mislabelled it. Any ideas? To help you, here are some lyric fragments from the song I have on tape. Most of the lyrics are indecipherable. "... the empty streets" "We made a contract ..." "From out of the nighttime, somebody screams" "What do they want with me I don't know, nobody knows Nobody even tries ..." The last three lines are from right at the end of the song. What song do I have on tape? Help! Greg Ward From: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu (Bob Kusumoto) Subject: 1981-1982 EP vs 1987 Substance yes, its different, I believe that someone knows this better than I do but the EP is correct and Substance isn't although the Substance version makes more sense in terms of the titles and lyrics of the songs. Someone back me up but I believe that 12" for Touched has the song Temptation listed (incorrectly) as the orginal. Bob From: kus3@tank.uchicago.edu (Bob Kusumoto) Subject: Electronic and Revenge If you don't know by now, the two new groups are Electronic (Bernard Sumner, Johnny Marr, Neil Tennant, David Palmer) the single: Getting away with it... (Sumner/Marr/Tennant) God, this is the worst thing I've heard since the Bee Gees did Saturday Night Fever. Its sounds like they're after the lite rock market with this single (the cd singles lists full length, instrumental, and extended versions of the song). Its awful. Ugh, I hope they do something better if they get an album out. Avoid it if at all possible. Revenge (Peter Hook & friends(not sure exactly who)) the single: Jesus...I love you (Hook/Hicks/Jones) A hell of a lot better than the Electronic single. Lots more beat to it and more New Order-ish in terms of its general dancability. The track listing on the cd single are: 7 reasons Jesus...I love you (7" edit) Bleach Boy Jesus...I love you Can't comment any more than that. gratuitous plug: If you can't seem to find these, I picked them up at this place in the suburbs call The Turntable (1-708-519-9090) and they do mail order. The cd singles were $13 each (what do you expect for imports) and they ship UPS. Excellent place to pick up imports in general. I don't work for these people but they've come up with the most dependable source of imports for my collection for the past few years now (which includes practically every import cd from New Order, I found my other imports from NO/JD from somewhere else). From: Greg (G.T.) Ward Subject: Re: Confusion I wrote the following before seeing Bob's reply to my original e-mail, but I want to post it anyways since it may contain the answer to the mystery. Does anyone have the 12" of "Everything's Gone Green"? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- A possible answer to my own question. After sending out the e-mail asking about what song I have on tape, I thought to look at the book "Pleasures and Wayward Distractions". The discography at the back confirms that the 1981-1982 EP contains the five songs I stated. It also says that the 12" for "Everything's Gone Green" was released with 2 songs on the back: "Mesh" and "Cries and Whispers". This narrows the answer down to two possibilities: either I have "Cries and Whispers" on tape, or, it appears on Substance and was mislabelled as "Mesh". Since I am positive the song I taped came from the 1981-1982 EP, it must be "Mesh", and the song on Substance would most likely be "Cries and Whispers". Can anyone confirm this? I'll have to listen closely to the lyrics to both songs to hear if either title appears in either song. (Unlikely for a New Order song :-) Greg Ward From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (CAR-RT SORT 25-Dec-1989 1819) Subject: Confusion... ------------------Reply to mail dated 23-DEC-1989 18:28:22.58------------------ Greg, The songs listed as "Mesh" on Substance is actually "Cries and Whispers" which was available with "Mesh" on the b-side of the "Everything's Gone Green" 12-inch. The 7-inch single omitted "Cries and Whispers". So somebody screwed up somewhere. As for Electronic versus Revenge, I'll take REVENGE any day! My 14 year old sister in law who loves New Kids on the Block and Madonna etc. even hates it...it doesn't pass her test... Ed From: arthur@hpsrad.enet.dec.com (Ho Ho Hum 25-Dec-1989 1847) Subject: Section 25 Hiyall, Can anyone recommend where to start with the Factory band Section 25? Are they still together? I heard "Looking from a Hilltop" yesterday and its brilliant...I have heard one Section 25 album (kinda like EARLY New Order) but it was boring. I have an album by the Factory band THE WAKE but I haven't had a chance to form an opinion, I've only had it for FIVE months! Can anyone shed any light on them? Thanks, Ed