From: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org (ceremony-digest) To: ceremony-digest Subject: ceremony-digest V1999 #134 Reply-To: ceremony@monkey.org Sender: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org Errors-To: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org Precedence: bulk ------- + Ceremony list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + See the above site for subscribing/unsubscribing and back issues. ------- ceremony-digest Monday, August 30 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 134 (Fac33) John Peel Night BBC2 (UK TV) Sun 29th (Fac33) question about electronic:electronic rematered ver Re: (Fac33) question about electronic:electronic rematered ver (Fac33) Palatine Japanese Box set question-answered RE: (Fac33) neworder.com (Fac33) New Order Boot Quality (Fac33) The King plays Joy Division Re: (Fac33) The King plays Joy Division Re: (Fac33) The King plays Joy Division Re: (Fac33) The King plays Joy Division (Fac33) Seller Question? (Fac33) new order - the cure question RE: (Fac33) new order - the cure question Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question Re: (Fac33) For the records Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question (Fac33) Hooky/Gallup (Fac33) SuperHighways Re: (Fac33) Temptation Re: (Fac33) Temptation Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data Re: (Fac33) Temptation Re: (Fac33) Temptation Re: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data (Fac33) Technique WinAmp Re: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data (Fac33) New Order vs. The Cure Re: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data Re: (Fac33) New Order vs. The Cure Re: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data Re: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data Re: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data (Fac33) another blue monday Re: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data RE: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Aug 99 11:14:43 PDT From: Ian Parkin Subject: (Fac33) John Peel Night BBC2 (UK TV) Sun 29th There is a series of programmes dedicated to John Peel this weekend on BB= C2. The 60s/70s show has some Joy Division content, according to the on-line = Radio Times, and I'd be willing to bet that the 80s/90s show has some New Order= =2E One not to miss, I venture. IAP ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm= ail.netscape.com. - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:43:55 -0400 From: Michael Roehr Subject: (Fac33) question about electronic:electronic rematered ver how can you tell the difference when looking at the cases.. i'm going shopping for it.. i lost my old copy about 3 years ago and don't recall much. i'd like to make sure i pick up the remastered ver this time :) Michael Roehr mroehr@helios.acomp.usf.edu watch for euro/synth of the 80s+90s this fall! http://wbul.usf.edu ICQ#184382 - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:37:24 +0100 From: "Simon" Subject: Re: (Fac33) question about electronic:electronic rematered ver on the cover of the rematser there's a black strip with the title on where as on the original it was red. Simon - ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Roehr To: Sent: Friday, August 27, 1999 7:43 PM Subject: (Fac33) question about electronic:electronic rematered ver > how can you tell the difference when looking at the cases.. i'm going > shopping for it.. i lost my old copy about 3 years ago and don't recall > much. i'd like to make sure i pick up the remastered ver this time :) > > Michael Roehr > mroehr@helios.acomp.usf.edu > watch for euro/synth of > the 80s+90s this fall! > http://wbul.usf.edu > ICQ#184382 > > > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to . > - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 04:52:31 -0600 From: "MARC " Subject: (Fac33) Palatine Japanese Box set question-answered Hi Roland, The Japanese promo box set that I have has a big OBI Strip around the box and has a red sticker that says PROMO in Japanese(w/c was translated to me). The box is open when I got it but the CDs are still sealed(now it's already open). All are in mint++ condition when I got it from this guy from Japan. Marc neworder@pangea.ca >So if you even have a promo of this...then I can only say it is rare as >f***!! Where did you get it from? Do you have an OBI-Stripe too? I >suppose it wasn't in your local record stores bargain bin, wasn't >it????? >Hey, maybe there is also a Japanese Cassette and LP issue????!!!! That >would be nice to have! Anyone knows?? > >Roland from Switzerland - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:22:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Matt Beh Subject: RE: (Fac33) neworder.com On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Osgerby, Jason L (Addept) wrote: > < otherwise? I remember looking at last year and it just had "coming soon...." > message on it.>> > > No, the "coming soon..." message was on my site at neworder.co.uk, but I > haven't had much time to do anything with it so I took it down. I'm still > hoping to get time to put something up there by the end of the year ::sigh:: > > As for why Healthstream owns neworder.com - God only knows, but they seem > reluctant to part with it for anything less than $1000. Yikes!! > > Jason. "Healthstream"... hmm. Well, if they're any reputable kind of health company or whatever, you'd think they would want no part of any website whose name seemed to hearken to the Third Reich. It would be nice if we could shame them out of the name, somehow, so they would agree to sell for less to someone on the Ceremony list. Just a thought. Matt - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:13:29 -0700 (PDT) From: The Boy Racer Subject: (Fac33) New Order Boot Quality Before I start leeching the hell outta the new and improved New Dawn Fades FTP, I thought I'd ask you guys and girl what concerts on there have the best sound quality? I'm online now, so you can go ahead an instant message me any advice at the screennames below! Thanks in advance! The Boy Racer aol: boyracer95 icq: 7746426 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:32:50 +0200 From: "Biotech4" Subject: (Fac33) The King plays Joy Division Hi I just got these two new cover versions. The first is an artist that calls himself: The King, he does a cover og "Love will tear us apart" - and yes he sounds like Elvis. It's a bizarre single it also covers Nirvanas "Come as you are" and Jimmy Hendrix "Voodoo chile". It is a quite bizarre single that Carl picked up somewere in Sweden for aound 50 cents!! the most bizarre song is an alternative version of "Come as you are" sung in japanese! Another cover version is by the German Surf-punk band Donots, on their brand new album the covers "True Faith" - it's a rather good and well-working cover - much like Offspring would have done it!!! It appears on the album "Better days not included" Lars - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 11:34:25 -0400 From: James N Britton Subject: Re: (Fac33) The King plays Joy Division You could make us some MP3s, right? >The first is an artist that calls himself: The King, he does a cover >og "Love will tear us apart" - and yes he sounds like Elvis. >It's a bizarre single it also covers Nirvanas "Come as you are" >and Jimmy Hendrix "Voodoo chile". > >It is a quite bizarre single that Carl picked up somewere in >Sweden for aound 50 cents!! the most bizarre song is >an alternative version of "Come as you are" sung in japanese! > >Another cover version is by the German Surf-punk band Donots, >on their brand new album the covers "True Faith" - it's a rather >good and well-working cover - much like Offspring would have done it!!! >It appears on the album "Better days not included" - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 17:51:16 +0200 From: "Biotech4" Subject: Re: (Fac33) The King plays Joy Division > You could make us some MP3s, right? > Sure, were should I upload them? Lars - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 12:34:26 -0400 From: James N Britton Subject: Re: (Fac33) The King plays Joy Division At 05:51 PM 8/28/99 +0200, Biotech4 wrote: > > > >> You could make us some MP3s, right? >> >Sure, were should I upload them? I have no space available, but I'm sure someone out there does. Anyone want to help! - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 15:56:00 EDT From: EdgesGirl@aol.com Subject: (Fac33) Seller Question? Is anyone familiar with this seller on GEMM? Seller: DAVES MUSIC RARITIES (DAVE / GMV5414) Email: DAVEL2@PACIFIC.NET.SG (he's from Singapore. Thanks! - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 14:27:40 PDT From: "Mike Mike" Subject: (Fac33) new order - the cure question now i remember awhile ago about new order's all the way bass line copying the cures just like heaven.......but i cant remember which cure song sounds like a new order song.....i know there is one out there.....can anyone help????? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:32:20 -0500 From: "Rawski, Ron" Subject: RE: (Fac33) new order - the cure question The Walk...(ala Blue Monday) - -Rawski Ps. I'm back. >-----Original Message----- >From: Mike Mike [SMTP:mike_el_rey@hotmail.com] >Sent: Saturday, August 28, 1999 4:28 PM >To: ceremony@monkey.org >Subject: (Fac33) new order - the cure question > >now i remember awhile ago about new order's all the way bass line copying >the cures just like heaven.......but i cant remember which cure song sounds >like a new order song.....i know there is one out there.....can anyone >help????? > > - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 17:33:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeremy Herskowitz Subject: Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question Think most people feel as though The Cure copied Age of Consent with Inbetween Days. Has anyone else read this? Jeremy On Sat, 28 Aug 1999, Mike Mike wrote: > now i remember awhile ago about new order's all the way bass line copying > the cures just like heaven.......but i cant remember which cure song sounds > like a new order song.....i know there is one out there.....can anyone > help????? > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to . > - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 17:49:11 EDT From: Alien153@aol.com Subject: Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question I think the guitars in "Fascination Street" sound some like in "State of the Nation" (I'm not sure if i was thinking of that song..could be another one) ~Alien153 - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 17:45:38 -0400 From: James N Britton Subject: Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question YEAH AND ALSO -- ALL THE SONGS ON "HEAD ON THE DOOR" SOUND EXACTLY LIKE "REGRET" BECAUSE LIKE SIMON GALLUP LIKE KNEW HOOKY WAS GOING TO LIKE WRITE IT SO HE JUST STOLE IT. - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 15:15:27 PDT From: "Lilian Pinto" Subject: Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question Always thought "Hurt" sounded like one of The Cure's song, just don't know which!!! Not the bass line, but the way Barney sings... On Sat, 28 Aug 1999 14:27:40 PDT, Mike Mike wrote: > now i remember awhile ago about new order's all the way bass line copying > the cures just like heaven.......but i cant remember which cure song sounds > like a new order song.....i know there is one out there.....can anyone > help????? > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to . ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 15:52:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Eddie Colton Subject: Re: (Fac33) For the records Yes, The Cure wrote "In Between Days" using the two main chords of A and D. Yes, New Order wrote "Dreams Never End" using the two main chords of A and D. New Order wrote "Age Of Consent" using the two main chords of D and G, which is A-D played 3 chords higher. New Order wrote "The Village" using the two main chords of C and F, which is A-D played 2 chords higher. The Cure managed to avoid A-D and similar progressions on their first album. The Cure managed to avoid A-D and similar progressions on their second album. This is a case of "band A has good ideas now, bad ideas later; band B has bad ideas now, good ideas later". Any questions? === - -E. Colton __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:57:47 EDT From: Cynflux@aol.com Subject: Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question << now i remember awhile ago about new order's all the way bass line copying the cures just like heaven >> copying?? heh! hooky played that style of bass first in joy division.. and then on in NewOrder.. the above statement should read cure copying new order... ;-) (CF) - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 00:32:16 EDT From: MsPinkEyez@aol.com Subject: Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question Is it The Walk maybe? It sorta sounds like Blue Monday. It has to be something off Japanese Whispers. Elizabeth - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 08:45:11 +0100 From: Andrew Balgobin Subject: Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question I thought "Inbetween Days" was a complete "Temptation" rip off............... "The Walk" and "Blue Monday" came out at almost the same time, so it's unlikely that they were influenced by each other. Andrew - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:48:28 +0200 From: "N21" Subject: Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question I think you should all check the digest archives cos this has been discussed numerous times :) N21 - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 07:58:27 PDT From: "JONATHAN SCOTT" Subject: (Fac33) Hooky/Gallup Whether The Cure sound like the Order or not is debatable but I can tell you that Gallups worship of Hooky went as far as having his guitars made by the same guy - Chris Eccleshall. Jonathan S. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 17:26:12 +0200 From: "N21" Subject: (Fac33) SuperHighways I've uploaded the lyrics to SuperHighways (the album) as well as a Real Audio G2 file for each song from the album. Find them in this messy website :) releases, othertwo, superhighways :) N21 ICQ : 34821681 NEW ORDER (the pop group with a dark past) @ http://neworder.simplenet.com N21TV @ http://welcome.to/N21 - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:27:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeremy Herskowitz Subject: Re: (Fac33) Temptation Does anyone know if NO is going to do another New Years gig this year? regards. - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:48:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Trickett Subject: Re: (Fac33) Temptation On the same subject; does anybody know the name of the DJ or any of the tunes played DIRECTLY before New Order came on stage at the Alexandra Palace New Year gig last year? - --- Jeremy Herskowitz wrote: > Does anyone know if NO is going to do another New > Years gig this year? > > regards. > > > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: > http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to > . > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:05:18 +0400 From: "Alex Bel" Subject: Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question - ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Balgobin Cc: Sent: Sunday, August 29, 1999 11:45 AM Subject: Re: (Fac33) new order - the cure question > I thought "Inbetween Days" was a complete "Temptation" rip > off............... > > "The Walk" and "Blue Monday" came out at almost the same time, so it's > unlikely > that they were influenced by each other. Actually, "The Walk" was released year later (1984), and it's a complete Blue Monday rip-off really. With best regards, Alex. - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:27:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Ross Subject: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data Robert Smith stated in a interview a long time ago that he wrote "The Walk" after listening to "Blue Monday" because it blew him away. Peter Hook has claimed several times in interviews that The Cure has 'ripped off' New Order (his words, not mine). The Trouser Press record guide 1988 on 'Head on the Door': "Head on the Door starts off sounding exactly like New Order". Bernard Sumner once said in an interview that he only listened to The Cure when he was in the mood to hear a New Order song. Select magazine has reffered to The Cure as the band that always aspired to be New Order. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:28:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Ross Subject: Re: (Fac33) Temptation I doubt New Order will play new years eve again, because it is after Stephens bedtime. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:36:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Trickett Subject: Re: (Fac33) Temptation Yep, dead right Jeremy; they were terrific tunes - I'm desperate to get hold of the name of the DJ or ANY of the tracks played B4 New Order came on stage... - --- Jeremy Herskowitz wrote: > Yeah, I thought that the tunes played before teh > show were awesome. I > know Future Sound Of London was played. > > On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, Matthew Trickett wrote: > > > > > On the same subject; does anybody know the name of > the DJ or any of the > > tunes played DIRECTLY before New Order came on > stage at the Alexandra > > Palace New Year gig last year? > > > > > > --- Jeremy Herskowitz > wrote: > > > Does anyone know if NO is going to do another > New > > > Years gig this year? > > > > > > regards. > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > + Ceremony mailing list web page: > > > http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > > > + To talk to a person, send mail to > > > . > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > > > > ------- > > + Ceremony mailing list web page: > http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > > + To talk to a person, send mail to > . > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 00:43:28 +0400 From: "Alex Bel" Subject: Re: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data More from Trouser Press website: "The Walk EP--four songs of New Orderish synth-based music that's more solemn than miserable--was also issued in the US with the earlier "Let's Go to Bed" and its flipside added." Hey, but i still like The Cure ;) It's funny actually - they use so many JD\NO-like tricks in their music and became more popular than the originals... With best regards, Alex - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Ross To: Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 12:27 AM Subject: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data > > Robert Smith stated in a interview a long time ago that he wrote "The > Walk" after listening to "Blue Monday" because it blew him away. > > Peter Hook has claimed several times in interviews that The Cure has > 'ripped off' New Order (his words, not mine). > > The Trouser Press record guide 1988 on 'Head on the Door': "Head on > the Door starts off sounding exactly like New Order". > > Bernard Sumner once said in an interview that he only listened to The > Cure when he was in the mood to hear a New Order song. > > Select magazine has reffered to The Cure as the band that always > aspired to be New Order. > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to . > > > - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 01:05:44 +0200 From: "N21" Subject: (Fac33) Technique WinAmp Haha I played a bit with Winamp skins today and the result is a Technique Skin I made for Winamp. You can get it if you want, and i'd be pleased to know what you think of it :) Happy B-day Happy Jack. Maybe he was cremated after all. N21 ICQ : 34821681 NEW ORDER (the pop group with a dark past) @ http://neworder.simplenet.com N21TV @ http://welcome.to/N21 - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:57:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Eddie Colton Subject: Re: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data Oh boy the 'Cure vs. New Order' thread, how uncommonly refreshing... ahhh. Robert has revealed being influenced by New Order. It's a shame that Monaco, The Other Two and Electronic can't admit as much. What I've yet to read is Simon Gallup saying he's really fond of Peter Hook's psuedo-rock posturings. Simon Gallup is a rock god. Hook just wants to be. How many artists have The Cure been influenced by compared to New Order? They certainly seem to have had a lot more variety, not to mention songs. No Cure songs have been 'complete rip-offs' of anything without being terribly obvious, unlike New Order's which tend to be more obscure and secretive rip-offs. "Shh, don't tell anybody this is a Kraftwerk song!" Again, it's pretty damn hard for a song with two, or even four major chords to be very original. So whether Temptation or Blue Monday were written first, they're not exactly the pinacle of musical excellence. Without rip offs, we'd have a lot less songs in our history. For reference, see the 'Wild Thing' vs. 'Louie Louie' vs. 'Thing Called Love' vs. countless others. Peter Hook can claim whatever he wants, but it's hardly valid coming from someone who doesn't even have the decency to change his style even slightly before becoming a sad parody of himself. How anyone can think In Between Days sounds like anything New Order has ever done is not apparent to me. The bottom line is that Robert Smith is a lyricist and a composer. Bernard is someone thrust into the spotlight and forced to become something which he never intended to be. Smith is capable of doing an entire album on his own. He can score a film and he probably will. Sumner is heavily dependant on other musicians. That's why Electronic still includes Johnny Marr. Even New Order fans know Barney can't write lyrics worth a Nelson. As for music, we have yet to see. But let's just lay off the 'Cure is a total rip-off of New Order' stuff. Even if they did steal a couple of riffs or ideas, they did it out of a genuine interest for the music. If New Order ripped off The Cure, they did it out of, pardon the term, revenge. And that's pretty low in my book. I for one am glad that there's knock offs in music. Not all of them are good. A lot of them are complete crap. One person can find worth in 'The Walk' but not in 'Blue Monday' and vice versa. I'm more frequently in the mood to hear 'In Between Days' than 'Dreams Never End', even though they're basically the same. So in that respect it doesn't matter which came first. Happy Jack was cremated? === - -E. Colton __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:20:02 -0700 (PDT) From: The Boy Racer Subject: (Fac33) New Order vs. The Cure Ok, while there may be some instances where New Order and The Cure, but they're different bands. I don't think either of them ripped each other off. Maybe some of their songs sound similiar, but do you think Robert Smith sat down to write "In Between Days" and said "Hey, I should write a song like 'Dreams Never End'!" I really don't think so. So what if they sound "the same"? We all like "Dreams Never End", so we should all like "In Between Days". Lord knows I do. Actually, I like "In Between Days" better! On top of that, I totally agree with Eddie Colton about how Robert Smith is a lyricist and a composer. More so then any member of New Order. Robert Smith IS The Cure. He's shown over the years that no matter who's in his band, he can write and play some outstanding music. Even with that crappy drummer he's got now. The Boy Racer aol: boyracer95 icq: 7746426 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:55:16 -0400 From: James N Britton Subject: Re: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data At 06:57 PM 8/29/99 -0700, Eddie Colton wrote: >Oh boy the 'Cure vs. New Order' thread, how uncommonly >refreshing... ahhh. Robert has revealed being influenced >by New Order. It's a shame that Monaco, The Other Two >and Electronic can't admit as much. What are you talking about? How can you be influenced by your own band? - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 00:10:45 EDT From: Cynflux@aol.com Subject: Re: (Fac33) New Order vs. The Cure << Even with that crappy drummer he's got now. >> LOL!!!! Hehehe..it doenst take a genius to figure out that Boris is a better drummer... And Stephen's drums just kicks me arse on "Komakino"... (CF) - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 01:25:57 -0400 From: Jay Kastner Subject: Re: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data >Smith is capable of doing an entire album on his >own. He can score a film and he probably will. He already has... >Sumner >is heavily dependant on other musicians. That's why >Electronic still includes Johnny Marr. "includes"? I take issue with that wording... - -Jay = = = M . C . P . // C . N . A . = = = Preferred: mailto:kastner@alumni.indiana.edu Secondary: mailto:swain@one.net ICQ: 9972384 // AIM: jaykastner // Y!IM: thenorthernline WIP (delayed once again): http://www.johnnymarr.com - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:03:14 +0930 From: "Brad Edwards" Subject: Re: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data And they both make crappy remix albums too :) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Ross To: Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 5:57 AM Subject: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data > > Robert Smith stated in a interview a long time ago that he wrote "The > Walk" after listening to "Blue Monday" because it blew him away. > > Peter Hook has claimed several times in interviews that The Cure has > 'ripped off' New Order (his words, not mine). > > The Trouser Press record guide 1988 on 'Head on the Door': "Head on > the Door starts off sounding exactly like New Order". > > Bernard Sumner once said in an interview that he only listened to The > Cure when he was in the mood to hear a New Order song. > > Select magazine has reffered to The Cure as the band that always > aspired to be New Order. > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to . > - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 04:28:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian McGee Subject: Re: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data Dunno, I think Mixed Up is excellent. Rest of New Order was a bit cack, although overall I prefer New Order to The Cure, Mixed Up to me is quite a fine album! Brian_ - --- Brad Edwards wrote: > And they both make crappy remix albums too :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike Ross > To: > Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 5:57 AM > Subject: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data > > > > > > Robert Smith stated in a interview a long time ago > that he wrote "The > > Walk" after listening to "Blue Monday" because it > blew him away. > > > > Peter Hook has claimed several times in interviews > that The Cure has > > 'ripped off' New Order (his words, not mine). > > > > The Trouser Press record guide 1988 on 'Head on > the Door': "Head on > > the Door starts off sounding exactly like New > Order". > > > > Bernard Sumner once said in an interview that he > only listened to The > > Cure when he was in the mood to hear a New Order > song. > > > > Select magazine has reffered to The Cure as the > band that always > > aspired to be New Order. > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > > > > ------- > > + Ceremony mailing list web page: > http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > > + To talk to a person, send mail to > . > > > > > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: > http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to > . > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:02:53 -0500 From: "Ivarsson, Torbjorn (Torbjorn)** CTR **" Subject: (Fac33) another blue monday I need help identifying a cover. My aeorobics instructor has a tape with a track called Dace Club Medley - most likely from some DJ Remix Service. The medley is kind of Euro-Top-40 and has a snippet of some band doing Blue Monday. They play the characteristic drums and the baseline and a *female* voice is singing "How does it feel?" The medley also has a track of, what sounds like K-Klass, and it goes something like "moving, keep on grooving". Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what Blue Monday cover it is? T. - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:30:34 EDT From: Punkapuss@aol.com Subject: Re: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data In a message dated 99-08-29 21:56:54 EDT, you write: << How many artists have The Cure been influenced by compared to New Order? They certainly seem to have had a lot more variety, not to mention songs. No Cure songs have been 'complete rip-offs' of anything without being terribly obvious, unlike New Order's which tend to be more obscure and secretive rip-offs. "Shh, don't tell anybody this is a Kraftwerk song!" >> That's a pretty loopy thing to say. New Order has definitely had a serious impact on bands...just look at all the covers that are done of their songs. I love both bands and think this whole "discussion" has gotten a little tedious. They're two different bands! w/ two different styles, and I think to keep going back and forth about "who's ripping who off" is useless. I'm sure it will continue on, regardless. battle on... arri - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:40:45 -0500 From: "Ivarsson, Torbjorn (Torbjorn)** CTR **" Subject: RE: (Fac33) New Order and The Cure: Data There is nothing better than Monday morning replies... especially when it comes to threads that seems to repeat themselves over and over and over and over again. I can't wait for another round of "is TF about gays", "is the lyric 'with abolt of blue' ". "Armand Van Helden sucks". [yawn] > Oh boy the 'Cure vs. New Order' thread, how uncommonly > refreshing... ahhh. Robert has revealed being influenced > by New Order. It's a shame that Monaco, The Other Two > and Electronic can't admit as much. That's (IMHO) a ridiculous statement to which I, if I was one of our fabulous four, wouldn't even bother to answer. Of course side-projects will be influenced by the mother-group unless they are extremely talented and diverse musicians than can swith between speed-metal and opera. I haven't heard about such musician but I'm sure that the collected intellect of the Internet can name at least one. > How many artists have The Cure been influenced by > compared to New Order? They certainly seem to have had > a lot more variety, not to mention songs. No Cure songs > have been 'complete rip-offs' of anything without being > terribly obvious, unlike New Order's which tend to be > more obscure and secretive rip-offs. "Shh, don't tell > anybody this is a Kraftwerk song!" What's the definition of "influenced" and "rip-off". Sometimes it seems that we use the term influenced when an artist we like is ripping off a song and rip-off when an artist we don't like (or if we just want to upset die hard fans :) is just influenced by a song. Lately it seems that we (read the list and other fans) don't like artists and groups that (IMHO) are influenced by some other group because they sound too much the same (= rip-off?), and we don't like DJs, who IMHO are influenced by the music, are remixing tracks so they keep very little of the original tune except for some part of the song or just the "feeling" (= influence?). Wwell, then again, some people don't like it when DJs keep most of the original and do, what some :) call cut'n'paste... > Again, it's pretty damn hard for a song with two, or > even four major chords to be very original. Well, maybe it's damn hard to be *very* original but there's definetly songs out there that are original. (IMHO) an original song doesn't have to have a complex structure, in fact I love simplicity - a good example if Depeche's Just Can't Get Enough. > The bottom line is that Robert Smith is a lyricist and > a composer. Bernard is someone thrust into the spotlight > and forced to become something which he never intended to > be. Smith is capable of doing an entire album on his > own. He can score a film and he probably will. Sumner > is heavily dependant on other musicians. That's why > Electronic still includes Johnny Marr. And is it wrong to depend on other people? I don't think it's fair to say that X is a better musician/composer/lyricist than Y simply because X has the same style no matter what people are surrounding him/her. If Y want/need to get input from other people that is not bad. In fact, that's one of the characteristics that are considered a valuable characteristic in today's world - being able to get and use input from others to create a high quality product. > Even New Order fans know Barney can't write lyrics worth > a Nelson. Well, I know at least one New Order fan that thinks that Barney writes excellent lyrics. Me. And I know of at least one group that doesn't care what people and fans think about them 'cos they are doing the music for themsleves. New Order. Well, that's my Monday reply. I didn't even comment if the Cure ripped of NO or not. The fact is that I don't now enough about the Cure to comment. In my very humble opinion, the Cure only has three good songs, Lovesong, Just Like Heaven and one more which I can't remember the name of right now. So Cure fans, line up and shoot me :) Have a good one, (Y)T - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ End of ceremony-digest V1999 #134 ********************************* ------- + For information on subscribing/unsubscribing and the digest archives, + see the Ceremony web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to .