From: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org (ceremony-digest) To: ceremony-digest@monkey.org Subject: ceremony-digest V2003 #20 Reply-To: ceremony@monkey.org Sender: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org Errors-To: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org Precedence: bulk ------- + Ceremony list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + See the above site for subscribing/unsubscribing and back issues. ------- ceremony-digest Wednesday, March 12 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 020 (Fac33) Re: negative feedback (Fac33) [query] -> _prime_586(video)_ (Fac33) hooky riff RE: (Fac33) [query] -> _prime_586(video)_ (Fac33) [mp3] -> _new_order_prime586(video)_ Subject: (Fac33) trivia (Fac33) [reply] -> _new_order_anthologies_ (Fac33) [mp3] -> _new_order___blue_monday(polish_7inch_edit)[cd]____fanmixv1.0___ (Fac33) [technical data] -> _prime586_(versions)_ (Fac33) -1 POSTS Re: (Fac33) -1 POSTS RE: (Fac33) -1 POSTS RE: (Fac33) [mp3] -> _new_order___blue_monday(polish_7inch_edit)[ cd]____fanmixv1.0___ RE: (Fac33) [mp3] -> _new_order___blue_monday(polish_7inch_edit)[ cd]____fanmixv1.0___ RE: (Fac33) [mp3] -> _new_order___blue_monday(polish_7inch_edit)[ cd]____fanmixv1.0___ RE: (Fac33) [mp3] -> _new_order___blue_monday(polish_7inch_edit)[ cd]____fanmixv1.0___ Re: (Fac33) [mp3] -> _new_order___blue_monday(polish_7inch_edit)[ cd]____fanmixv1.0___ Re: (Fac33) -1 POSTS Subject: (Fac33) _abstract_vs_literal_ (Fac33) _is_blue_monday_disco?_ Re: (Fac33) _is_blue_monday_disco?_ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 13:13:29 -0800 (PST) From: Eddie Colton Subject: (Fac33) Re: negative feedback >> Guess people don't understand how to use the "scroll" on digest >> mode, or a killfile/etc... to leave a mailing list because of one >> poster is... well, it's rather limiting. > > - -1 is *contributing* folks. His style may not be to everyone's > taste But I for one am grateful that he takes the trouble to share > the fruits of his efforts with us. To paraphrase Mike: just scroll > with it. Jesus, people. It's not about scrolling, it's about 70% of every digest being of interest to the minority of people who join a DISCUSSION list, not a trainspotting information list. It takes less effort for one person to upload his posts to a personal site than it does for 400 list members to try and figure out where -1's posts end and new messages begin. Nobody's asking or forcing him to leave, but his dilution of the digests with what some people see as no more meaningful than binary is causing them to consider leaving. If you think that's his right, then we might as well accept the right of site-owner flame wars and personal attacks to take up valuable digest space too. Maybe YOU think he's contributing, but it would be a different story if some newbie joined and posted New Order lyrics every day for no reason. At least when I used to post narrow paragraphs it didn't take up half the digest. And even if these posts are pure gold, why leave people to search the Ceremony archives for them when they could be on a proper website? There is a difference between contributing to a discussion list and sending your ideas of good web content to it. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 18:23:57 -0600 From: "-1" Subject: (Fac33) [query] -> _prime_586(video)_ [query] hey no'er's does anyone have the original video for prime586? A Factory Outing (Compilation) [Dec 1983] - ------------------------------------ VHS: UK 1983 (Factory FACT 71) Prime 5-8-6 6:36 i was watching an encoded video of it, and it appears to be blank after the 3min:14sec part........ is that the way its supposed to be? the audio for the track is 6min:36sec... i'll be putting that up next.. and i'll will be trying to figure out what portions of that is from the full 22min version on cd...and recreate it that way.. later | || | || | | ne g ativ e 1 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 00:59:26 EST From: Cynflux@aol.com Subject: (Fac33) hooky riff i was listening to the mike haas mix of vicious circle and i noticed something about 2 mins and 55 seconds in. Hooky plays a bass riff (circa 1993) and this riff is also a part of the main bass riff (circa 1997) in the Monaco song Sweet Lips. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned on this list before. I just noticed it tonight. Kind Regards ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 12:16:56 -0000 From: "Nick King" Subject: RE: (Fac33) [query] -> _prime_586(video)_ Well, according to http://www.niagara.edu/neworder/video/afo.html : " VHS: UK 1983 (Factory FACT 71V) [PAL/NTSC] VHS: UK 1983 (Ikon IKON 5) [PAL/NTSC] VHS: US 1983 (Factory US/Of Factory New York FACT 71) [NTSC] BETA: UK 1983 (Factory FACT 71B) [PAL/NTSC] BETA: UK 1983 (Ikon IKON 5) [PAL/NTSC] BETA: US 1983 (Factory US/Of Factory New York FACT 71) [NTSC] 2:45 (Hacienda Construction Footage) * 6:37 Your Silent Face * Instrumental primitive of 5-8-6 (Prime 5-8-6) used for intro Hacienda construction footage. - - Live at The Hacienda Club, Manchester." l8rs, Nick ;-) > [query] > > hey no'er's > > does anyone have the original video > for prime586? > > A Factory Outing (Compilation) > [Dec 1983] > ------------------------------------ > VHS: UK 1983 (Factory FACT 71) > Prime 5-8-6 6:36 > > i was watching an encoded video of it, > > and it appears to be blank after the > 3min:14sec part........ > > is that the way its supposed to be? > > the audio for the track is 6min:36sec... > i'll be putting that up next.. > > and i'll will be trying to figure > out what portions of that is from > the full 22min version on cd...and > recreate it that way.. > > later > > | || | || | | > ne g ativ e 1 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 18:06:01 -0600 From: "-1" Subject: (Fac33) [mp3] -> _new_order_prime586(video)_ 'i see danger' hi neworder'ers, [files] ok, here's what was once a rather rare track, until it got re-released.... it was originally part of a piece, that was used as a promotional song for the opening of the hacienda.. it's not on 'substance', 'retro' or 'international'... [history] a 23 minute track recorded for the opening of the Hacienda in Manchester in 1982, and a blueprint for "Blue Monday", this was later released (the entire version)..by the touch label in 1997.. previously you could find parts of the tracks on cassette, or on other compilations... [review] a very early, electro track.. you can hear different strains of sounds that may have been used in 586, and 'blue monday' later on.. i like it, its got a very unique sound to it...and its a good instrumental..very experimental... the longer version is a little harder to 'get into', but i like that one also.. this version is converted from the video of it.. i've altered the sound on it, by making it louder, and trying to reduce the hiss on it.. i'll try to re-create on cd, when i figure out which parts it is.. feel free to post your thoughts on it... check it out.. [location] ====================================== contact me for information - ---------------- track - ----- 1 - new_order-prime586(video).mp3 info - -------------------------- Size: 7928163 bytes Length: 396 seconds <-6min36sec MPEG 1.0 layer 3 160kbit, 15188 frames 44100hz Joint Stereo Private: No CRCs: No Copyrighted: Yes Original: Yes Emphasis: None reference : from the new order discography - ------------------------- A Factory Outing (Compilation) [Dec 1983] - ------------------------------------ VHS: UK 1983 (Factory FACT 71) Prime 5-8-6 6:36 - ------------------------- later | || ||| || || n e g a tive 1 'heard you calling' ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 23:21:13 +0100 From: "Mick Aneworderfan" Subject: Subject: (Fac33) trivia Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 22:20:37 -0000 From: "Mark Reed" Subject: (Fac33) trivia 3. "Louie Louie" from 24 Hr Party People (supposedly performed by Joy Division,) is performed by Peter Hook and Pals *Best moment of the whole movie! It's such a shame it's so short... I'd have loved to see the whole "performance", not to mention the original back then... mick: mick973@email.it aneworderfan: http://stop.at/aneworderfan (it's back) - -- Prendi GRATIS l'email universale che... risparmia: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Volare a tariffe scontatissime? Con Sterling viaggi comodo, sicuro e risparmi, clicca e scopri le tariffe Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=1225&d=10-3 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 19:35:20 -0600 From: "-1" Subject: (Fac33) [reply] -> _new_order_anthologies_ yo, mr toast, i hope you're not advocating, people go back to 1997, and try to find copies of these that were selling for $25 each... yeah, 6 year old conversions that you can't find.. or free tracks (that are better quality 160k->128k)... which are going to be CD-quality eventually... good luck enjoying your anthologies.. and by the way, not all the tracks i post are on there...a lots changed in 6 years.. but i guess you'll never know.. later || | || | | || ne g ativ e 1 >Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 04:30:45 +0000 >From: "J Toast" >Subject: Re: (Fac33) -1's Posts >I'm out too. Most of -1's MP3s and info are really really old and it's time >for me to do some spring cleaning anyway. If you have Nicolas' anthologies, >you have everything -1 has ever posted. -1, I appreciate your posts and >effort for info/data, but it's just getting too stale at least for me. Have >fun. >Thnx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 20:08:46 -0600 From: "-1" Subject: (Fac33) [mp3] -> _new_order___blue_monday(polish_7inch_edit)[cd]____fanmixv1.0___ 'while i walked down to the beach' hi new-order'ers, [mp3] ok, since its still the 20th anniversary of the release of the song.. here's my RE-creation of the 'blue monday' (polish 7inch edit)... if you want yet another shorter version, without having to listen to all 7+minutes of the full version, this is it.. this version is DIFFERENT from the video edit, and from the japanese 7" edit, (and the uk 7" edit also i guess)... i found the information from this post in the ceremony-archives: ceremony - v98 n048 - ----------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:30:33 EST From: FObertopp Subject: (Fac33) ITEMS: BM 7"-edit In einer eMail vom 15.03.1998 16:30:05, schreiben Sie: > >Blue Monday [Mar 1983] > > 7/93: PL 1985 (Tonpress DS-25-A ) [promo] > > 5:05 Blue Monday > Do you know who edited the track ? Hi, Antoine ! no idea ... but now I've compared the POL 7" to the original BM-mix. I used FACD 200 to get the time-code. The polish promo starts where the original-mix is exactly at 1:00 mins. Then both versions run simultaneous and identical. The 7" begins a fade-out, when the CD is at 5:55 mins. The 7"-version is ending at 6:05 of the original-mix. So it's a "cut-out" of the original-mix. The total running time is 5:05 mins. Maybe more does not fit on a 45rpm 7" . . . So, does someone know how the JP 7" version is edited ? Length of the JP-promo is 4:09, so it's different. Thanks in advance ! Greetings, Frank ========================================================== feel free to post your thoughts on it... [location] ====================================== contact me for information later || | | | || || | | ne g at ive 1 ================================= track - ----- 1 new_order-blue_monday(polish_7inch_edit_cd)[160k].mp3 info - ----- fan made remix technical - ---------------------------------- Size: 6084963 bytes Length: 304 seconds <- 5min04sec MPEG 1.0 layer 3 160kbit, 11657 frames 44100hz Joint Stereo Private: No CRCs: No Copyrighted: Yes Original: Yes Emphasis: None ================= - ------------------------- 'how does it feel?' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 01:01:37 -0600 From: "-1" Subject: (Fac33) [technical data] -> _prime586_(versions)_ [technical data] ok no'ers, after listening to the cd version of 'prime586', i've made several comparisons to all the versions on tape/video, etc.. but first of all...here's more information on the video, from the factory discography: - ----------------------------- FACT 71 VARIOUS A Factory Outing Oct 83 VHS: UK 1983 (Factory FACT 71V) [PAL/NTSC] BETA: UK 1983 (Factory FACT 71B) 2:45 {Hacienda Construction Footage} * 6:37 NEW ORDER - Your Silent Face 3:09 JAMES - Stutter 3:03 STOCKHOLM MONSTERS - Life's Two Faces 4:36 52nd STREET - The Rapp 3:43 A CERTAIN RATIO - Back to the Start 3:08 A CERTAIN RATIO - Showcase 4:05 SWAMP CHILDREN - You've Got Me Beat 4:29 DURUTTI COLUMN - The Beggar 5:17 THE WAKE - Uniform 4:48 SECTION 25 - Warhead 5:47 QUANDO QUANGO - Go Exciting 3:06 {Hacienda Venue Footage} ** * Instrumental primitive of NEW ORDER - 5-8-6 (Prime 5-8-6) used for intro Hacienda construction footage. ** Instrumental mix of 52nd STREET - Cool As Ice used for outro Hacienda venue footage. - - All tracks live at The Hacienda Club, Manchester. - - The packaging says in big numerals "51" / "71", indicating the previous point (see also FAC 51). - - Later releases on IKON with sticker stating: "Special Notice: Ikon regrets that The Wake and Quando Quango soundtracks have had to be removed due to insistance of Island Music Ltd." here are the findings: it appears that some of the video versions have combined the audio perhaps(?) as the total time is then 2:45 + ?:??(3:51) to make the full total.. for the video footage version i have is : 6min:36 this version IS NOT THE SAME as prime586(part3) also.... ===================================================== the next set of listings is the time indexes used for that version compared to the FULL version on the TOUCH cd.. (ie: which parts it was edited from) NOTE : the fade in/outs are APPROXIMATE, and there are voice samples on the cassette versions prime586(video) vs prime586(cd) - --------------------------------------------------- prime586(video) - duration 6min:36sec prime586(video) prime586(cd) - ------------------------------------------ start 0:00.000 4:36.688 end 6:36.399 11:13:087 fade-in 0:00.000 - 0:02.786 fade-out 6:22.014 - 6:36.399 ====================================================== NOTE : ok, and to finalize it, here are the comparisons to the cassette versions from the TOUCH sampler.. (i'm still not sure which is part1 or part3 though).. prime586(part1) vs prime586(cd) ====================================================== prime586(part1) - duration 14m:03sec prime586(part1) prime586(cd) - ------------------------------------------ start 0:02.925 8:21.504 end 14:03.735 22:05:239 fade-in 0:02.925 - 0:04.133 **** NOTE : LEFT AND RIGHT CHANNELS REVERSED ON CASSETTE **** ====================================================== prime586(part3) vs prime586(cd) ====================================================== prime586(part3) - duration 6min:58sec prime586(part3) prime586(cd) - ------------------------------------------ start 0:00.000 0:05.572 end 6:57.962 7:03:534 fade-out 6:29.259 - 6:57.386 [right channel only] ====================================================== i'll be putting up the originals, (enhanced quality) from the cassettes.. and the cd-recreations of them also.. if there's any interest... later | | | | | || ne ga ti ve1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:22:45 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?B?TXIuIChfpF8p?= Subject: (Fac33) -1 POSTS FUCK ! This is getting out of hand ! When will the guy post ? The mp3s are appreciated, but **HELL** why so much blabla ? This is not the first time someone has complained lately, and it seems Mr -1 has **NOT** taken care of those warnings. He must disarm, NOW. (_[_]_) ^^^ put a scud in here. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger : discutez en direct avec vos amis ! http://www.msn.fr/msger/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 06:49:54 -0300 From: almanso Subject: Re: (Fac33) -1 POSTS please, is the "delete" button so hard to use? from now on when anyone that is unhappy with negative=B4s posts sees "-1" as a sender use that button and won=B4t need to read it. let=B4s not make a bigger issue of this, please! is no= t worth it. peace alejo > FUCK ! >=20 > This is getting out of hand ! When will the guy post ? The mp3s are > appreciated, but **HELL** why so much blabla ? >=20 > This is not the first time someone has complained lately, and it seems Mr= -1 > has **NOT** taken care of those warnings. >=20 > He must disarm, NOW. >=20 > (_[_]_) >=20 > ^^^ > put a scud in here. >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Messenger : discutez en direct avec vos amis ! > http://www.msn.fr/msger/default.asp >=20 > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:44:54 -0000 From: Brian McGee Subject: RE: (Fac33) -1 POSTS Not sure I agree with you there alejo, the delete button is ok for us, = but not for digest readers. The information in -1's posts is interesting, but I agree it should be = on a website and not mindlessly posted page by page to the list. I can't = imagine what the digests look like at this stage. I'd be his biggest fan if I = could browse through a site for his information, but until such time, I've = had to add -1 to my list of blocked senders (sure beats leaving the list = anyway). Again the digest readers can't do this as easily. Brian http://coins.thefigurehead.net - -----Original Message----- From: almanso [mailto:almanso@fibertel.com.ar] Sent: 11 March 2003 09:50 To: ceremony@monkey.org Subject: Re: (Fac33) -1 POSTS please, is the "delete" button so hard to use? from now on when anyone = that is unhappy with negative=B4s posts sees "-1" as a sender use that = button and won=B4t need to read it. let=B4s not make a bigger issue of this, = please! is not worth it. peace alejo > FUCK ! >=20 > This is getting out of hand ! When will the guy post ? The mp3s are > appreciated, but **HELL** why so much blabla ? >=20 > This is not the first time someone has complained lately, and it = seems Mr - -1 > has **NOT** taken care of those warnings. >=20 > He must disarm, NOW. >=20 > (_[_]_) >=20 > ^^^ > put a scud in here. >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Messenger : discutez en direct avec vos amis ! > http://www.msn.fr/msger/default.asp >=20 > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: = http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to . - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: = http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:56:53 -0600 From: "Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T)" Subject: RE: (Fac33) [mp3] -> _new_order___blue_monday(polish_7inch_edit)[ cd]____fanmixv1.0___ > -----Original Message----- > From: -1 [mailto:rajg@nol.net] > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 9:09 PM > > this version is DIFFERENT > from the video edit, and > from the japanese 7" edit, > (and the uk 7" edit also i > guess)... To me, there has to be a little bit more (albeit not much more) to an edit than simply using a fader on a longer version. The *only* differences between this version and the 12" version are that the full intro and outro are not there. Therefore, saying that this is an edit would be too much. If that's the case, one could argue that the BM on Substance (where the first beat is missing) would be a "Substance Edit". BTW: I have exclusive edits of every Get Ready track before the final mix, since the *cough*CD*cough*R*cough* I have for some reason skips the first 0.1 seconds of every track. Now that's rare... Just my 0.02 Euros, which is worth more than my $0.02 these days... :) T. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 16:10:30 -0000 From: Brian McGee Subject: RE: (Fac33) [mp3] -> _new_order___blue_monday(polish_7inch_edit)[ cd]____fanmixv1.0___ - -----Original Message----- From: Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T) [mailto:tivarsson@lucent.com] Sent: 11 March 2003 15:57 To: ceremony@monkey.org Subject: RE: (Fac33) [mp3] -> _new_order___blue_monday(polish_7inch_edit)[ cd]____fanmixv1.0___ To me, there has to be a little bit more (albeit not much more) to an edit than simply using a fader on a longer version. The *only* differences between this version and the 12" version are that the full intro and outro are not there. Therefore, saying that this is an edit would be too much. If that's the case, one could argue that the BM on Substance (where the first beat is missing) would be a "Substance Edit". -------->>>>> Errrr... nope. BM on Substance isn't missing a beat - BM on the BM95 CD is missing several beats - it starts with three but the second and third beats are not the start of the track per Substance - compare and you'll see. My EUR0.02 :) Brian http://coins.thefigurehead.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:23:14 -0600 From: "Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T)" Subject: RE: (Fac33) [mp3] -> _new_order___blue_monday(polish_7inch_edit)[ cd]____fanmixv1.0___ > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian McGee [mailto:Brian.McGee@Sentrio.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 11:11 AM > are not there. Therefore, saying that this is an edit would > be too much. If > that's the case, one could argue that the BM on Substance > (where the first > beat is missing) would be a "Substance Edit". > > -------->>>>> Errrr... nope. BM on Substance isn't > missing a beat - > BM on the BM95 CD is missing several beats - it starts with > three but the > second and third beats are not the start of the track per Substance - My bad. Must've mixed it up with TPK. I'm sure this has been discussed before, but are the beats missing on other releases of BM as well? > compare and you'll see. Erhm, if I have absolutely nothing else to do, yes. My glory days as a trainspotter are long gone. I'll give you 0.02 Iraqi Dinar, T. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 16:31:38 -0000 From: Brian McGee Subject: RE: (Fac33) [mp3] -> _new_order___blue_monday(polish_7inch_edit)[ cd]____fanmixv1.0___ - -----Original Message----- From: Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T) [mailto:tivarsson@lucent.com] Sent: 11 March 2003 16:23 To: 'ceremony@monkey.org' Subject: RE: (Fac33) [mp3] -> _new_order___blue_monday(polish_7inch_edit)[ cd]____fanmixv1.0___ > My bad. Must've mixed it up with TPK. I'm sure this has been discussed before, but are the beats missing on other releases of BM as well? -> Nope > Erhm, if I have absolutely nothing else to do, yes. My glory days as a trainspotter are long gone. -> As are mine, I just remember this from the discussions! Listen to the 12" if you have it. > I'll give you 0.02 Iraqi Dinar, -> Thanks! T. - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 16:45:33 -0000 From: "John Saunders" Subject: Re: (Fac33) [mp3] -> _new_order___blue_monday(polish_7inch_edit)[ cd]____fanmixv1.0___ I have 2 Blue Monday 12" on vinyl and they both start in different places. One starts with 3 bass drums in 4/4 time before the repetitive 8 beat bass drum and one starts with the repetitive 8 beat bass drum (sorry about the musical terminology, its the best I can do!). Incidentally on my Movement CD Senses is missing the first beat. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T)" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 4:23 PM Subject: RE: (Fac33) [mp3] -> _new_order___blue_monday(polish_7inch_edit)[ cd]____fanmixv1.0___ > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brian McGee [mailto:Brian.McGee@Sentrio.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 11:11 AM > > are not there. Therefore, saying that this is an edit would > > be too much. If > > that's the case, one could argue that the BM on Substance > > (where the first > > beat is missing) would be a "Substance Edit". > > > > -------->>>>> Errrr... nope. BM on Substance isn't > > missing a beat - > > BM on the BM95 CD is missing several beats - it starts with > > three but the > > second and third beats are not the start of the track per Substance - > > My bad. Must've mixed it up with TPK. I'm sure this has been discussed before, but are the beats missing on other releases of BM as well? > > > compare and you'll see. > > Erhm, if I have absolutely nothing else to do, yes. My glory days as a trainspotter are long gone. > > I'll give you 0.02 Iraqi Dinar, > > T. > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to . > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 16:06:12 -0300 From: almanso Subject: Re: (Fac33) -1 POSTS sorry, don=B4t know what a digest reader is. is it much different than regula= r email sevice? alejo > Not sure I agree with you there alejo, the delete button is ok for us, bu= t > not for digest readers. >=20 > The information in -1's posts is interesting, but I agree it should be on= a > website and not mindlessly posted page by page to the list. I can't imag= ine > what the digests look like at this stage. I'd be his biggest fan if I co= uld > browse through a site for his information, but until such time, I've had = to > add -1 to my list of blocked senders (sure beats leaving the list anyway= ). > Again the digest readers can't do this as easily. >=20 > Brian > http://coins.thefigurehead.net >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: almanso [mailto:almanso@fibertel.com.ar] > Sent: 11 March 2003 09:50 > To: ceremony@monkey.org > Subject: Re: (Fac33) -1 POSTS >=20 >=20 > please, is the "delete" button so hard to use? from now on when anyone th= at > is unhappy with negative=B4s posts sees "-1" as a sender use that button an= d > won=B4t need to read it. let=B4s not make a bigger issue of this, please! is = not > worth it. > peace >=20 > alejo >=20 >=20 >> FUCK ! >>=20 >> This is getting out of hand ! When will the guy post ? The mp3s are >> appreciated, but **HELL** why so much blabla ? >>=20 >> This is not the first time someone has complained lately, and it seems M= r > -1 >> has **NOT** taken care of those warnings. >>=20 >> He must disarm, NOW. >>=20 >> (_[_]_) >>=20 >> ^^^ >> put a scud in here. >>=20 >> _________________________________________________________________ >> MSN Messenger : discutez en direct avec vos amis ! >> http://www.msn.fr/msger/default.asp >>=20 >> ------- >> + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ >> + To talk to a person, send mail to . >=20 > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to . > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 20:18:57 +0100 From: "Mick Aneworderfan" Subject: Subject: (Fac33) _abstract_vs_literal_ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:30:10 -0600 From: "-1" Subject: (Fac33) _abstract_vs_literal_ movement <- geometric designs 1981-EP-1982 <- one of my all time favorites, power, corruption and lies <- excellent derivation of real art best of <- more symbolic artwork related designs.. Blue Monday <- literal, but cool design *These are all amongst the very best... Confusion <- miminal, electronic based *This is the best absolutely. I adore the colours, the fonts, the colour code... while these latter ones represented a more, tired, easier to approach, consumer-friendly design.. brotherhood <- based on real material *Yes but it's still pretty amazing... I remember seeing the cover in my record shop before becoming a fan, I didn't even know it was New Order, it was just there in the N section and I thought I should have known more about a band presenting an album with such a minimal cover... it wasn't even a sort of drwaing like, say, Unknown Pleasures, you just have this material thing... technique, republic, get ready <- more literal photography *Yeah but what photography! Especially the cherub, one of the greatest contemporary masterpieces... mick: mick973@email.it aneworderfan: http://www.aneworderfan.tk --- or http://surf.to/aneworderfan [new!] http://stop.at/aneworderfan [CEASING TO WORK ON 31 MARCH 2003!] - -- Prendi GRATIS l'email universale che... risparmia: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Vuoi cambiare i tuoi interessi ma non la tua banca? Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=656&d=11-3 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 19:17:02 -0600 From: "-1" Subject: (Fac33) _is_blue_monday_disco?_ hey t, thanks for your thoughts on this, Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 07:52:26 -0600 From: "Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T)" Subject: RE: (Fac33) [mp3] -> _new_order_sub-culture(12inch)_ >> >> they deteriorated into the worst kind >> of over-produced disco, i'd heard in >> quite some time...but those horrid back-up >> singers..(night! tight!)...... >> >> uggghhhhh..what had become of them? >> >> is this really new order? gone were >> the vocals, the guitars, everything... >Ok, I know that many people dislike the 12" track but >I cannot say that it is _that_ bad, I actually like it >and always had. NO have worse tracks, let's say State Of The Nation. >It's hard to argue with taste though... but can you say honestly, you weren't surprised when you heard it? don't you think this demarcation of the singles occurred here? up until this point, all the singles, and remixes had some kind of relation to the album or the originals.... i think the addition of the back-up vocalists is what was really unnerving... also, the 'commercializing' of bernards vocals to something smoother, and easier to listen to was troubling.. don't you like the 'razormaid' versions, (especially the 3rd mix)...which retains the original elements but extends the song? >> to me, this really started the bad trend of the >> many, many, horrible remixes that would >> come out later for new order.. >>[snip, snip] >> and ultimately for me, was a death blow >> for what direction i felt they were going >> with their mixes.. >Argh, bashing remixes - again. Since I am the self-proclaimed >defender of remixes I just have to say something here. >To me, up until Substance, New Order was defined by the 12" releases, >not the albums - that seems to have changed with Technique though. >With Technique, which was releases in the early stages of the modern >club-culture, we also started to see remixes that were more than >just "extended versions". wasn't it the discos that ushered in the success of 'blue monday? (at least here in the united states).. at least in the UK they may have played it on the radio a few times..so maybe thats how it gained its impact there.. and isn't the purpose of releasing the single in a 12" format, meant to promote the music in a 'club' setting? i think it would be fair to assess that the early mixes were much more influential in their success and impact in the club setting... 'blue monday' redefined the prototype of rock/electro dance hybrids...(along with many other groups that were coming out)... by the time 'technique' was out, 'new orders' mixes were practically indistinguishable from other groups since they were employing the same remixers/producers and 'techniques' that other groups were using (no pun intended)... thats why the early singles are so much more impressive, they didn't need the same hooks, they used inventive sounds, and retained the vision that the music had.. none of the latter singles held up to their earlier standard.. the irony in this, is that the 'sub-culture' remixes are actually perfect for discos/clubs...the vocals, the back-up singers, and the beat would probably be great dance tunes... >We started to see remixes where other artists were >re-shaping the sound, instead of just re-edit the sound. >I believe some fans cannot muster those remixes unless >the remixers keep Barney's vocals, Stephen's drums, >Gillian's keyboards, and (perhaps most important) Hooky's bass intact... the only re-edits of the singles were the shorter radio versions, and the album versions..... i would hardly call the 12" of temptation (for instance) as a 're-edit'...the mastering, and effects are completely different across all the versions.. don't get me wrong, i have tons of remixes that i like from other groups, (such as underworld) that don't sound like the original.. but i think in 'new order's case it was much more detrimental towards the attitudes that they had with their music (ie. much more disinterest in how their music turned out)..and a lack of involvement in most cases.. especially the production values.. >Personally, I like remixes. They allow me to see >(or listen to) NO in a different perspective. Sure, >there are some remixes that quickly fades in my memory >(and on the dance-floor) but other remixes emerge as >classics, e.g. the Slow'n'Low mix of Regret, the K-Klass >mix of RIAD, Pump Panel's Confusion, and Lee-Comb's Crystal. >The "extended mixes" from the 80's are also good. there are very VERY FEW occasions while any of the post-mid 80's mixes are actually worth listening to... so i think a lot of them fade rather quickly.. the few that are good, are actually worth listening to, however, the golden era has definitely passed.. >On a final note: I wish NO brought back Armand van Helden >to remix more tracks ;) >/T i actually think this mix can be salvaged, just give me some time, its rather surprising.. later | | || | || | | ne g ativ e 1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 18:19:12 -0000 From: "Mark Reed" Subject: Re: (Fac33) _is_blue_monday_disco?_ Hmm. I think the 'rot' started with NO's run of particularly uninmaginative b-sides starting with "Dub-Vulture" and running through the whole set of dub mix b-sides. Though I reckon you could edit together killer 13-14 minute versions of their tracks taking all the variations, especially with "Shellshock". I must say I think that "World In Motion" was were NO fell completely for the Cult Of The Remix, and the Regret/RIAD/World/Spooky/TF-94/1983/BM95 b-sides were momunmentally lazy, not to say often boring. Right, back to Motorhead. Mark - ----- Original Message ----- >To me, up until Substance, New Order was defined by the 12" releases, >not the albums - that seems to have changed with Technique though. >With Technique, which was releases in the early stages of the modern >club-culture, we also started to see remixes that were more than >just "extended versions". wasn't it the discos that ushered in the success of 'blue monday? (at least here in the united states).. at least in the UK they may have played it on the radio a few times..so maybe thats how it gained its impact there.. and isn't the purpose of releasing the single in a 12" format, meant to promote the music in a 'club' setting? i think it would be fair to assess that the early mixes were much more influential in their success and impact in the club setting... 'blue monday' redefined the prototype of rock/electro dance hybrids...(along with many other groups that were coming out)... by the time 'technique' was out, 'new orders' mixes were practically indistinguishable from other groups since they were employing the same remixers/producers and 'techniques' that other groups were using (no pun intended)... thats why the early singles are so much more impressive, they didn't need the same hooks, they used inventive sounds, and retained the vision that the music had.. none of the latter singles held up to their earlier standard.. the irony in this, is that the 'sub-culture' remixes are actually perfect for discos/clubs...the vocals, the back-up singers, and the beat would probably be great dance tunes... >We started to see remixes where other artists were >re-shaping the sound, instead of just re-edit the sound. >I believe some fans cannot muster those remixes unless >the remixers keep Barney's vocals, Stephen's drums, >Gillian's keyboards, and (perhaps most important) Hooky's bass intact... the only re-edits of the singles were the shorter radio versions, and the album versions..... i would hardly call the 12" of temptation (for instance) as a 're-edit'...the mastering, and effects are completely different across all the versions.. don't get me wrong, i have tons of remixes that i like from other groups, (such as underworld) that don't sound like the original.. but i think in 'new order's case it was much more detrimental towards the attitudes that they had with their music (ie. much more disinterest in how their music turned out)..and a lack of involvement in most cases.. especially the production values.. >Personally, I like remixes. They allow me to see >(or listen to) NO in a different perspective. Sure, >there are some remixes that quickly fades in my memory >(and on the dance-floor) but other remixes emerge as >classics, e.g. the Slow'n'Low mix of Regret, the K-Klass >mix of RIAD, Pump Panel's Confusion, and Lee-Comb's Crystal. >The "extended mixes" from the 80's are also good. there are very VERY FEW occasions while any of the post-mid 80's mixes are actually worth listening to... so i think a lot of them fade rather quickly.. the few that are good, are actually worth listening to, however, the golden era has definitely passed.. >On a final note: I wish NO brought back Armand van Helden >to remix more tracks ;) >/T i actually think this mix can be salvaged, just give me some time, its rather surprising.. later | | || | || | | ne g ativ e 1 - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ End of ceremony-digest V2003 #20 ******************************** ------- + For information on subscribing/unsubscribing and the digest archives, + see the Ceremony web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to .