From: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org (ceremony-digest) To: ceremony-digest@monkey.org Subject: ceremony-digest V2003 #30 Reply-To: ceremony@monkey.org Sender: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org Errors-To: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org Precedence: bulk ------- + Ceremony list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + See the above site for subscribing/unsubscribing and back issues. ------- ceremony-digest Monday, May 26 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 030 (Fac33) Arthur baker (Fac33) Vietnam: reply to T (Fac33) Vietnam: reply to Eddie RE: (Fac33) random sample RE: (Fac33) Vietnam: reply to T (Fac33) OFF TOPIC, DELETE IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO READ RE: (Fac33) OFF TOPIC, DELETE IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO READ RE: (Fac33) OFF TOPIC, DELETE IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO READ (Fac33) Peter Saville and New Order (Fac33) Feb 7 87 Brisbane "BLT" (Fac33) writeup for 870204 - The Galaxy, Auckland, New Zealand Re: (Fac33) writeup for 870204 - The Galaxy, Auckland, New Zealand Re: (Fac33) writeup for 870204 - The Galaxy, Auckland, New Zealand ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:33:21 +0100 From: David Sydenham Subject: (Fac33) Arthur baker I have uploaded: Arthur Baker's Return to New York (CBGB mix) feat Princess Superstar to: http://www.oasiscommunications.com/dsydenham/dropzone/Arthur.mp3 Which has just appeared on this months X-Ray mag CD. For any of those interested. It'll be there for a day or so. dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 20:37:38 +0200 From: "Mick Aneworderfan" Subject: (Fac33) Vietnam: reply to T Sorry for the delay, I wrote a single reply to two posts, but it didn't make it to the list because it was too long in its entirety. I try now by separating the two replies: >Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 13:37:52 -0500 >From: "Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T)" >Subject: RE: >Subject: RE: (Fac33) Anyone out there? / Vietnam >Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 13:37:52 -0500 >From: "Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T)" >Subject: RE: >Subject: RE: (Fac33) Anyone out there? / Vietnam > Warning: long message, delete or scroll to the signature if it's too much for you... >> *Hi T, thank you, but where are the dozens of daily posts? ;-) > >What?! You are not getting them? My inbox is packed every morning... > *Now the list is more active, but at the time of my post the digest took like 10 days to be sent amd had a dozen of messages, not daily, but all over those ten days... >Hmm, I'm pretty sure if a catchy tune would get bashed even more if it was >released as a single. A compilation track is (I believe) easier forgotten >than a single. > *Actually this compilation is a big opportunity for New Order to get known by foreign masses. It's getting a wide distribution here in Italy, there were like seven copies in my usual record shop... the most of the people in continental Europe don't even know New Order exist, here there are some big names like Paul McCartney, David Bowie (great track, sounds more like New Order than New Order... ;-) ), George Michael etc, and it's for charity, so I gues many people who never heard of New Order will hear them for the first time. So for them New Order will be that band sounding a bit like UB40 in that charity compilation. They'll make an idea of their sound by that track (though luckily is a cover), and won't ever imagine they did songs like Temptation, Perfect Kiss, Crystal etc. Now there are two possibilities: 1 The more mainstream - oriented listeners search other New Order songs and find out they usually ain't this easy, they sound a bit, y'know, weird in fact... no other UB40-like tracks, then, and they'll forget them. They'll wait for the next Ronan Keating, it's safer... 2 The (younger) more alternative - oriented listeners won't search other New Order songs, they don't like that kind of cheesy pop, they'll wait for the next Travis maybe, they sound more serious, y'know... and they won't ever know New Order did songs like Dreams Never End, True Faith, Regret... Neither chance is very good, is it? I think New Order should have used this opportunity to make know their sound as it really is, either with a great electronic track like Here To Stay, or a more guitar led track like Crystal, and target a potential audience halfway between pop and alternative, as they always did. With this song they just do plain pop, but will disappoint pop listeners with their other songs (I think the only other truly commercial song they did, by the mainstream standards, is World In Motion, which is already a bit more complex than the usual and is infinitely better as for instrumentation and tune), and won't appeal the halfway alternative listeners. There have been other moments when New Order got large exposure to people who never heard of them. They were great moments: "Ah... New Order... aren't they those of that video with those weird jumping men and that turtle-woman? Yeah, that's a great song, can I hear any others?" and "Ah... New Order... aren't they those of that World Cup song with the English team? Yeah, that's a top tune, can I hear any others?" It happened to me several times, to get these kind of responses, and I was always very pleased... I hope nobody will ever answer like this: "New Order? Oh please... aren't those of that cheesy fake reaggae crap in that charity compilation with Paul McCartney and George Michael?" >Fine Time = catchy?! > *Oh yes, the keyboard especially, I even programmed it as my mobile tune, but the voice as well... that "You're much toooooyoung!", it's really powerful, isn't it? >> >Is it their worst song ever? Nope. >> >> *Oh yes! What would be worse then? > >[blasphemy warning=on] >Shellshock is easily a worse song. *I never liked it so much, though recently I've been hearing it again and it's, like, OK, not bad at all, I can enjoy it once in a while... I think it's million times better than Vietnam anyway... Well, Shellshock makes me think this: it's a track on which they worked a lot, the instrumentation is very rich and complex, and that's also what makes it better than Vietnam, which sounds like thrown there in a few hours with the first gear they could get their hands on... we can read on the Hope booklet the compilation was assembled as quick as possible just as the war started. That means New Order had very little time to work on Vietnam, and that's an almost good excuse for the sound... the only really good thing here is Phil's guitar, the only reason I can still stand listening the song, but this doesn't save it from being so mediocre as a whole. You know what, if they had to quickly contribute an anti-war song, why didn't they just pass a live performance of Love Vigilantes? Now that would have been a good sample of their music! I appreciate them making the effort of doing a new recording, but this time the laziest choice would have been the better. The only funny thing of Vietnam is for us fans, to get hear the lyrics which have quite clearly inspired Love Vigilantes sung by Bernard Sumner, but 99 listeners out of 100 won't even know New Order have ever made such a song and won't get the joke... yes, I think Vietnam is a sort of joke in the end, it's like: "Do you wanna hear from where we did steal the lyrics for Love Vigilantes?" :-) Also, I have never been a fan of the >Movement songs. Other than Dreams Never End, the Movement tracks are too >gloomy and dark for me and would classify as worse than Vietnam (IMHO)... *OK you did warn about blasphemy! It's alright then... ;-) I love Truth and Chosen Times, I don't like so much Doubs Even Here, but it's a masterpiece when compared to Vietnam... I also think it's humiliating for New Order to have Vietnam followed by Basement Jaxx's Love Is The Answer, it's like them showing New Order how should it really be done this reggae thing, their base is so much better than New Order's, if New Order used a base like this Vietnam might have been a good cover... Of >course, I am not a big fan of JD either, though a handful of tracks from >Permanent are on heavy rotation in my car. *Come on, is there any Joy Division song which can really be worse than Vietnam? Oh yes, crap like Transmission maybe? ;-) [uh uh only kidding of course] Hey the most of the rest of Hope is shit as well, the only really good track is that Bowie mix... Basement Jaxx are alright but I don't like Yellowman, Moby has a good keyboard but the song is quite boring, Avril Lavigne makes you miss Guns'n'Roses, and that says all... the rest is commercial pop and fake alternative like on your average chart compilation... I'd have liked to see Section 25's Warhead on this compilation! ;-) Buy it for charity and for your New Order collection, is all I can say. mick: mick973@email.it aneworderfan: http://surf.to/aneworderfan - -- Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Conto Arancio: facile aprirlo, difficile rinunciarci. Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=663&d=22-5 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 20:38:44 +0200 From: "Mick Aneworderfan" Subject: (Fac33) Vietnam: reply to Eddie >Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 13:50:07 -0700 (PDT) >From: Eddie Colton >Subject: (Fac33) winge winge wank > >This band is clearly doomed to fail if none of their fans can like a >decent song unless it sounds like their narrow preconceived notions. *Well, narrow isn't an appropriate word if you think their sound has had quite a wide range over the years: I love Mesh as much as I love Blue Monday as much as I love Fine Time as much as I love Crystal, they're all very different from each other... it's not like they stuck to same formula over their career like many bands do, always sounding the same... I also like many other sounds in music, I love the Pixies as much as I love Steely Dan... it's not that I don't like Vietnam because it's a different sound, I don't like it because it's a crap sound! In fact I'd have loved to hear a great reggae track by New Order, as I've written above, if they did something like Basement Jaxx, that would have been cool... I appreciate the effort of making something different, but that doesnt mean it's not shite, different does not mean good or bad in itself, if they did a crap nu metal song like Slipknot it would be different, but it would still be crap, if they did a nice shoegazing song like My Bloody Valentine it would be different and it could be nice, but only if they do a good work... I like the concept of New Order doing reggae, it's just the results, this time, are bad... they could try again and the results could be much better of course... as I wrote im ,y prervious message it would have been interesting something like a collaboration with Mad Professor... it would still have been different, and it could have been good... >Face it, with Gillian, Stephen Hague, and Arthur Baker nowhere to be >seen, we're lucky this band even HAS a sound anymore. *I don't know if Gillian had anything to do with it, but Here To Stay clearly did show New Order can look forward and still make a great sound and a great tune... From what I heard >before I lost the connection, "Vietnam" sounded great *Now this is a surprise... I'm glad you finally like something New Order did since Brotherhood! ;-p It's like, Get Ready is all crap, but Vietnam is great... OK, to each their own, Eddie... ;-) Now that I think, this is sooo Eddie... I should have expected you had your unpredictable point of view... ;-) But then I'm one of the few who is open-minded >enough to like Twisted Tenderness (and not just the title track). > *Oh yes that's an excellent album... finally we agree on something... are you also one of the few to like One True Passion, like me? :-) >There's a difference between me slagging off the shody production >values of Get Ready because it sounds more like a rushed album than one >that took several years to complete *I don't know how you can think the production is poor, it's quite rich in fact, take Crystal, Vicious Streak, Someone Like You... even Rock The Shack is just made as rough as it's meant... the only better produced album is Technique (and maybe, just maybe, Power Corruption And Lies), but you can find some weak production in all the other albums here and there (though they're all well produced in their entireties if you put them in their contexts...). How can you >call yourself a fan when you think the only good songs New Order has >done are "Blue Monday" and "The Perfect Kiss"? *Who? I wrote I never disliked a New Order songs before and there were just a few I liked less in fact, I adore the 95% of their songs, I think there are at least 20 of them which are absolute masterpiece superior to anything else ever made by a human being, I've also been criticized in the past for liking everything New Order did, maybe it's the first time since I'm on Ceremony I don't write extremely delighted for something they've done... I just said those songs are untouchable because I think those are the top of the top of what they did, but of course I adore many other songs, from Temptation to Vanishing Point... It's a >good thing they still play their tired greatest hits at every show, or >else they probably wouldn't sell many tickets. *I'm happy with their set lists. They play the (tired? what about the brilliant new versions of True Faith and Touched?) hits, but play also some album tracks, Joy Division stuff, and some unexpected song like Brutal... they couldn't do better... mick: mick973@email.it the NewOrders: http://www.neworder.musicpage.com - -- Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Sei un webmaster, vuoi guadagnare? Affiliati ad Artefiori. Clicca qui! Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=751&d=22-5 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 20:29:28 -0400 From: Nicolas LeBlanc Subject: RE: (Fac33) random sample Oh, 2 days ago it was Your Silent Face... Go figure! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ceremony@monkey.org [mailto:owner-ceremony@monkey.org] On = Behalf Of robert dawson Sent: May 21, 2003 10:54 PM To: ceremony@monkey.org Subject: (Fac33) random sample As I was turning to CNN Headline News just a minute ago they played = Leave Me Alone as the were sequeing to their "Hot Wired" segment. No explanation given. I thought that was very weird. bob - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 07:59:16 -0500 From: "Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T)" Subject: RE: (Fac33) Vietnam: reply to T Hi Mick, > -----Original Message----- > From: Mick Aneworderfan [mailto:mick973@email.it] > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 2:38 PM > > I gues many people who never heard of New Order will hear > them for the first time. I wonder if a statement like that holds true. I believe that most people (in countries with a lot of "wester"-like pop-music) have heard NO, they may just not know their name or their back catalogue. Anyway, > Now there are two possibilities: > 1 The more mainstream - oriented listeners search other New > Order songs and > find out they usually ain't this easy, they sound a bit, > y'know, weird in > fact... no other UB40-like tracks, then, and they'll forget > them. They'll > wait for the next Ronan Keating, it's safer... Hmm, interesting. It sounds to me that you are saying that the majority of the people (aka. mainstream) will like this (according to some, not me) "worst track ever" compilation-filler, but not like (according to everyone on this list) the true pop-classics that have defined two decades of music. > 2 The (younger) more alternative - oriented listeners won't > search other New > Order songs, they don't like that kind of cheesy pop, they'll > wait for the > next Travis maybe, they sound more serious, y'know... and > they won't ever > know New Order did songs like Dreams Never End, True Faith, Regret... Hmm, interesting... :) I could see another scenario. The more "alternative" listener likes to follow the music industry (unlike the utterly lazy, I-only-listen-to-top-40 mainstream listener, right?) and probably noticed the name New Order somewhere, perhaps with the coverage of 24HPP. They will say, "Hmm interesting, can really this wonderfully light-hearted and cheesy reagge-pop tune be done by the same people I thought were New Order? I must do some research to satisfy my curiosity." > Neither chance is very good, is it? He, he, as you see, I try to be more optimistic. Is it too optimistic? I don't think so, because I believe that with your definition of who will be listening to NO, it was pure luck that I got hooked on them. As some people know, I probably belong more to the mainstream category than the alternative category. If I could find NO and become hard-core, then others can do it as well... > >> *Oh yes! What would be worse then? > > > >[blasphemy warning=on] > >Shellshock is easily a worse song. > > *I never liked it so much, though recently I've been hearing > it again and > it's, like, OK, not bad at all, I can enjoy it once in a > while... I think > it's million times better than Vietnam anyway... Aha, a glimmer of hope. Perhaps even you, Mick, can start enjoying Vietnam to some extend in about another 15 years... :) > The only funny thing of Vietnam is for us fans, to get hear > the lyrics which > have quite clearly inspired Love Vigilantes sung by Bernard The other joke is when the guys sit around the campfire and say: "Ha, ha, ha, did you see all the passionate debates on the Net? Man, do people really have that much time to spend debating what tracks we should or should not play. Don't they know by now that we don't give a fcuk, and that we just play what we want." Well, I'm sure my replay has changed your mind... It's friday and I'm in love, T. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 15:36:11 +0100 From: Brian McGee Subject: (Fac33) OFF TOPIC, DELETE IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO READ Due to the seriousness of this case, I feel it's "better to ask for forgiveness than permission" - and therefore I am sending this message in the hope that even if it annoys half the people on the list, maybe it's worth being flamed if the other half sign the petition. Go on, flame me - it's better than being stoned to death (read on) Brian - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Please take a few minutes to read the following and then please add your name to the petition. AMNINA LAWAL SET TO BE STONED ON 3RD JUNE The Nigerian Supreme Court has upheld the death sentence for Amina Lawal, condemned for the crime of adultery on August 19th 2002, to be buried up to her neck and stoned to death. Her death was postponed so that she could continue to nurse her baby. Execution is now set for June 3rd. If you haven't been following this case, you might like to know that Amina's baby is regarded as the 'evidence' of her adultery. The father denied everything when he realised the trouble he was in. To find out more about sharia law, see http://www.guardian.co.uk/theissues/article/0,6512,777972,00.html Amina's case is being handled by the Spanish branch of Amnesty International, which is attempting to put together enough signatures to make the Nigerian government rescind the death sentence. A similar campaign saved another Nigerian woman, Safiya, condemned in similar circumstances. By March 4th the petition had amassed over 2,600,000 signatures. It will only take you a few seconds to sign Amnesty's online petition. Go to the web page http://www.amnistiaporsafiya.org/ Enter your first name in the space marked "nombre", last name in "apellidos" - city county ("provincia"), country, and In the drop down box pick Irlanda or wherever you live. Then click on "Seguir" and go to the second page. There you have the option of entering your email address if you wish to receive follow-up information. NB NB NB be sure to click on "aceptar" to have your name added to the petition list. Please sign the petition now, then copy this message into a new email and send it to everyone in your address book. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 15:42:42 +0100 From: "Ade" Subject: RE: (Fac33) OFF TOPIC, DELETE IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO READ Tm8gbWF0ZSAtIGJyaW5nIGl0IG9uIC0gYSB0b3VjaCBvZiByZWFsaXR5IHNob3VsZG4ndCBiZSBj b21wbGFpbmVkIGF0IGp1c3QgYmVjYXVzZSBpdCdzIGFuICdpbmNvbnZlbmllbmNlJyB0byBoYXZl IHRvIHJlYWQgJiB0aGVuIGRlbGV0ZSBpdC4NCiANCk5pY2UgdG8gc2VlIHRoZSBmYXN0ZXN0IGdy b3dpbmcgcmVsaWdpb24gaGFzIGJlZW4gdHdpc3RlZCBieSBtYW5raW5kIGVub3VnaCB0byBhbGxv dyB0aGlzIGZpbHRoIHRvIGdvIG9uIC0gbGV0J3MgYWxsIHJlZ3Jlc3MgYnkgMTAwMCB5ZWFycy4u Lg0KDQoJLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0gDQoJRnJvbTogb3duZXItY2VyZW1vbnlA bW9ua2V5Lm9yZyBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgQnJpYW4gTWNHZWUgDQoJU2VudDogRnJpIDIzLzA1LzIw MDMgMTU6MzYgDQoJVG86IEJyaWFuIE1jR2VlIA0KCUNjOiANCglTdWJqZWN0OiAoRmFjMzMpIE9G RiBUT1BJQywgREVMRVRFIElGIFlPVSBETyBOT1QgV0FOVCBUTyBSRUFEDQoJDQoJDQoNCg0KCUR1 ZSB0byB0aGUgc2VyaW91c25lc3Mgb2YgdGhpcyBjYXNlLCBJIGZlZWwgaXQncyAiYmV0dGVyIHRv IGFzayBmb3INCglmb3JnaXZlbmVzcyB0aGFuIHBlcm1pc3Npb24iIC0gYW5kIHRoZXJlZm9yZSBJ IGFtIHNlbmRpbmcgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGluDQoJdGhlIGhvcGUgdGhhdCBldmVuIGlmIGl0IGFu bm95cyBoYWxmIHRoZSBwZW9wbGUgb24gdGhlIGxpc3QsIG1heWJlIGl0J3MNCgl3b3J0aCBiZWlu ZyBmbGFtZWQgaWYgdGhlIG90aGVyIGhhbGYgc2lnbiB0aGUgcGV0aXRpb24uDQoJDQoJR28gb24s IGZsYW1lIG1lIC0gaXQncyBiZXR0ZXIgdGhhbiBiZWluZyBzdG9uZWQgdG8gZGVhdGggKHJlYWQg b24pDQoJDQoJQnJpYW4NCgkNCgkNCgktLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQoJDQoJDQoJUGxlYXNlIHRha2UgYSBm ZXcgbWludXRlcyB0byByZWFkIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgYW5kIHRoZW4gcGxlYXNlIGFkZCB5b3Vy DQoJbmFtZSB0byB0aGUgcGV0aXRpb24uDQoJDQoJIEFNTklOQSBMQVdBTCBTRVQgVE8gQkUgU1RP TkVEIE9OIDNSRCBKVU5FDQoJDQoJVGhlIE5pZ2VyaWFuIFN1cHJlbWUgQ291cnQgaGFzIHVwaGVs ZCB0aGUgZGVhdGggc2VudGVuY2UgZm9yIEFtaW5hDQoJTGF3YWwsIGNvbmRlbW5lZCBmb3IgdGhl IGNyaW1lIG9mIGFkdWx0ZXJ5IG9uIEF1Z3VzdCAxOXRoIDIwMDIsIHRvIGJlDQoJYnVyaWVkIHVw IHRvIGhlciBuZWNrIGFuZCBzdG9uZWQgdG8gZGVhdGguIEhlciBkZWF0aCB3YXMgcG9zdHBvbmVk IHNvIHRoYXQNCglzaGUgY291bGQgY29udGludWUgdG8gbnVyc2UgaGVyIGJhYnkuIEV4ZWN1dGlv biBpcyBub3cgc2V0IGZvciBKdW5lIDNyZC4gSWYNCgl5b3UgaGF2ZW4ndCBiZWVuIGZvbGxvd2lu ZyB0aGlzIGNhc2UsIHlvdSBtaWdodCBsaWtlIHRvIGtub3cgdGhhdCBBbWluYSdzDQoJYmFieSBp cyByZWdhcmRlZCBhcyB0aGUgJ2V2aWRlbmNlJyBvZiBoZXIgYWR1bHRlcnkuIFRoZSBmYXRoZXIg ZGVuaWVkDQoJZXZlcnl0aGluZyB3aGVuIGhlIHJlYWxpc2VkIHRoZSB0cm91YmxlIGhlIHdhcyBp bi4NCgkNCglUbyBmaW5kIG91dCBtb3JlIGFib3V0IHNoYXJpYSBsYXcsIHNlZQ0KCWh0dHA6Ly93 d3cuZ3VhcmRpYW4uY28udWsvdGhlaXNzdWVzL2FydGljbGUvMCw2NTEyLDc3Nzk3MiwwMC5odG1s DQoJDQoJQW1pbmEncyBjYXNlIGlzIGJlaW5nIGhhbmRsZWQgYnkgdGhlIFNwYW5pc2ggYnJhbmNo IG9mIEFtbmVzdHkNCglJbnRlcm5hdGlvbmFsLCB3aGljaCBpcyBhdHRlbXB0aW5nIHRvIHB1dCB0 b2dldGhlciBlbm91Z2ggc2lnbmF0dXJlcyB0bw0KCW1ha2UgIHRoZSBOaWdlcmlhbiBnb3Zlcm5t ZW50IHJlc2NpbmQgdGhlIGRlYXRoIHNlbnRlbmNlLiBBIHNpbWlsYXINCgljYW1wYWlnbiBzYXZl ZCBhbm90aGVyIE5pZ2VyaWFuIHdvbWFuLCBTYWZpeWEsIGNvbmRlbW5lZCBpbiBzaW1pbGFyDQoJ Y2lyY3Vtc3RhbmNlcy4NCglCeSBNYXJjaCA0dGggdGhlIHBldGl0aW9uIGhhZCBhbWFzc2VkIG92 ZXIgMiw2MDAsMDAwIHNpZ25hdHVyZXMuDQoJDQoJSXQgd2lsbCBvbmx5IHRha2UgeW91IGEgZmV3 IHNlY29uZHMgdG8gc2lnbiBBbW5lc3R5J3Mgb25saW5lIHBldGl0aW9uLg0KCQ0KCUdvIHRvIHRo ZSB3ZWIgcGFnZSBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmFtbmlzdGlhcG9yc2FmaXlhLm9yZy8NCglFbnRlciB5b3Vy IGZpcnN0IG5hbWUgaW4gdGhlIHNwYWNlIG1hcmtlZCAibm9tYnJlIiwNCglsYXN0IG5hbWUgIGlu ICJhcGVsbGlkb3MiIC0gY2l0eQ0KCWNvdW50eSAoInByb3ZpbmNpYSIpLCBjb3VudHJ5LCBhbmQg SW4gdGhlIGRyb3AgZG93biBib3gNCglwaWNrIElybGFuZGEgb3Igd2hlcmV2ZXIgeW91IGxpdmUu IFRoZW4gY2xpY2sgb24NCgkgIlNlZ3VpciIgYW5kIGdvIHRvIHRoZSBzZWNvbmQgcGFnZS4NCglU aGVyZSB5b3UgaGF2ZSB0aGUgb3B0aW9uIG9mIGVudGVyaW5nICB5b3VyIGVtYWlsIGFkZHJlc3Mg aWYgeW91IHdpc2ggdG8NCglyZWNlaXZlDQoJIGZvbGxvdy11cCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbi4NCgkNCglO QiBOQiBOQiAgYmUgc3VyZSB0byBjbGljayBvbiAiYWNlcHRhciIgdG8gaGF2ZSB5b3VyIG5hbWUg YWRkZWQgdG8gdGhlDQoJcGV0aXRpb24gbGlzdC4NCgkNCglQbGVhc2Ugc2lnbiB0aGUgcGV0aXRp b24gbm93LCB0aGVuIGNvcHkgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGludG8gYSBuZXcNCgllbWFpbCBhbmQgc2Vu ZCBpdCB0byBldmVyeW9uZSBpbiB5b3VyIGFkZHJlc3MgYm9vay4NCgktLS0tLS0tDQoJKyBDZXJl bW9ueSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3Qgd2ViIHBhZ2U6ICBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1vbmtleS5vcmcvfmxhcHMv Y2VyZW1vbnkvDQoJKyBUbyB0YWxrIHRvIGEgcGVyc29uLCBzZW5kIG1haWwgdG8gPGNlcmVtb255 LW93bmVyQG1vbmtleS5vcmc+Lg0KCQ0KDQo= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 16:06:48 +0100 From: "Hibell, David (COMFIN, EEF)" Subject: RE: (Fac33) OFF TOPIC, DELETE IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO READ guys the info is wrong june 3rd is the next hearing check here for details http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/amina.asp - -----Original Message----- From: Ade [mailto:ade@the-lab.zetnet.co.uk] Sent: 23 May 2003 15:43 To: Brian McGee; ceremony@monkey.org Subject: RE: (Fac33) OFF TOPIC, DELETE IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO READ No mate - bring it on - a touch of reality shouldn't be complained at = just because it's an 'inconvenience' to have to read & then delete it. =20 Nice to see the fastest growing religion has been twisted by mankind = enough to allow this filth to go on - let's all regress by 1000 years... -----Original Message-----=20 From: owner-ceremony@monkey.org on behalf of Brian McGee=20 Sent: Fri 23/05/2003 15:36=20 To: Brian McGee=20 Cc:=20 Subject: (Fac33) OFF TOPIC, DELETE IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO READ =09 =09 Due to the seriousness of this case, I feel it's "better to ask for forgiveness than permission" - and therefore I am sending this message in the hope that even if it annoys half the people on the list, maybe it's worth being flamed if the other half sign the petition. =09 Go on, flame me - it's better than being stoned to death (read on) =09 Brian =09 =09 ------------------------------------------------------------------- =09 =09 Please take a few minutes to read the following and then please add your name to the petition. =09 AMNINA LAWAL SET TO BE STONED ON 3RD JUNE =09 The Nigerian Supreme Court has upheld the death sentence for Amina Lawal, condemned for the crime of adultery on August 19th 2002, to be buried up to her neck and stoned to death. Her death was postponed so that she could continue to nurse her baby. Execution is now set for June 3rd. If you haven't been following this case, you might like to know that Amina's baby is regarded as the 'evidence' of her adultery. The father denied everything when he realised the trouble he was in. =09 To find out more about sharia law, see http://www.guardian.co.uk/theissues/article/0,6512,777972,00.html =09 Amina's case is being handled by the Spanish branch of Amnesty International, which is attempting to put together enough signatures to make the Nigerian government rescind the death sentence. A similar campaign saved another Nigerian woman, Safiya, condemned in similar circumstances. By March 4th the petition had amassed over 2,600,000 signatures. =09 It will only take you a few seconds to sign Amnesty's online petition. =09 Go to the web page http://www.amnistiaporsafiya.org/ Enter your first name in the space marked "nombre", last name in "apellidos" - city county ("provincia"), country, and In the drop down box pick Irlanda or wherever you live. Then click on "Seguir" and go to the second page. There you have the option of entering your email address if you wish to receive follow-up information. =09 NB NB NB be sure to click on "aceptar" to have your name added to the petition list. =09 Please sign the petition now, then copy this message into a new email and send it to everyone in your address book. ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . =09 'zj'=E2=80=A0f)+-=E2=80=9E=06j=07=7F=E8=9A=84=0C0{*+=EF=86=83Z=0Fz|:-jY-= ^=EF=BF=AE' =1E=E9=A8=9F*0 y=1E=CA=8A This e-mail is intended for the addressee(s) named above only. As this e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information, if you are = not the named addressee(s) or the person responsible for delivering the = message to the named addressee(s), please telephone us immediately. The = contents of this e-mail should not be disclosed to any other person nor copies = taken.=20 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 19:17:45 -0700 (PDT) From: David Sultan Subject: (Fac33) Peter Saville and New Order Check out Peter Saville info on the expo with pictures on my index page http:// www.worldinmotion.net Enjoy David Sultan ===== http://www.worldinmotion.net Home of Joy Division/New Order/Electronic/Revenge/The Other Two/Monaco and Factory. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 05:44:17 EDT From: GaoBest@aol.com Subject: (Fac33) Feb 7 87 Brisbane "BLT" Hey kids, Finally giving a close listen to this gig - what a setlist - it includes 586, Thieves Like Us, Dreams Never End... wowza. Not to mention the Sister Ray encore (only song of the encore) - and a brilliant BLT with Barney almost sounding angry and aggressive (because it sounds like the sound engineer lowered his mic levels by accident during the verse before the second chorus!)... then seguing to Weirdo. I'm so impressed. I've copied it (this gig) for quite a few of you on this list, so I hope you hear and enjoy this little tidbit :-) x Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 02:50:18 -0700 From: Sam Habash Subject: (Fac33) writeup for 870204 - The Galaxy, Auckland, New Zealand Listfolk, I'm no '-1', but as keeper as the gigography detail (our ocean-lovin' rodent handles the set listings, I listen to stuff and write whatever crap pops up in my head, there's NEXT TO NO overlap between us) I decided to do writeups for some of the CDs that GaoBest has so kindly mailed me. Hopefully, this will be the first of several. I tend to get lazy or busy and don't finish things. If I missed anything or mistranslated Barney, please email updates@new-order.net with suggestions and corrections! Without further ado...here's the writeup, which is also archived at http://www.new-order.net/no/gigs/nogigs.html#NO-870204 NO: 4 FEB 87 The Galaxy - Auckland, New Zealand - ------------------------------------------------- Source is from a CD mailed to me by GaoBest, as he has a thing for the '87 Australian tour. To quote GaoBest: "All first gen from D6 & ECM929LT masters, from master cassette>cassette (XL2s) to DAT>CDR>itunes. I got them in 1994/1995 on Maxell XL2s brand tapes. They sound really fucking good." He's not kidding, this is generally a nice-sounding concert. The pre-gig music for this one is pretty strange. Sounds like something called 'Riders Of Rohan', very Viking and gallopy. About a minute or so through this, New Order come on and take the stage. BS: "Hello, we're New Order. If the bouncers are here, we can probably get a few more in here." I presume he's talking about more fans, not more bouncers. Always liked Paradise as a good first song. Dirty lyric alert. "When I looked in your pubic hair, I saw you everywhere". It even rhymes, heh. You can hear some punter make his fustration known regarding what Barney's on about. BS: "Thank you very much....C'mon get this mike stand, Eddy. Get this mike stand." A couple of chords strummed. NO then play Shellshock. A bit of a gap, you can here somebody call out 'Ceremony!', which they play. The band then get into YSF, you can hear Bernard flub a line (the one before "a path we cannot take") beneath all the bass feedback. And then, Leave Me Alone, with a beautifully sloppy guitar intro. I adore the phrasing on "you get these words wrong..." in their performances during this era. A couple electric guitar chord strums...and then another electronic one, this time, Angel Dust. Then we hear 'Let's Go-esque' riffing...into yet another disco tune, Subculture. Followed by a plaintively passionate vocal for The Village, including this classic: "We're in the money now And everyone else spends it somehow Pick up your fucking leaves And you do the begging class, I won't please" Our love is like the powers The rain and the sea and the fucking hours Our love is like the powers The rain and the sea and the...hours" The song concludes in some VU-style riffing, which goes on for about 15-20 seconds. I'd like some help in pinning this down. Weirdo: Another one with a lock without a fucking key, repeated for good measure. This song is underrated, at least by my account. Here the first side ends. Bizarre Love Triangle starts up with bass feedback, and there's bad dropouts about 15 and 30 seconds in. The outro is also strummed through,, and true to form, another dance song, Confusion, follows. The sound is a bit dodgy through this one. And just like that New Order decide they are done. BS: "Thank you, good night." The "Viking theme" or whatever its called then can be heard over the PA. It continues for a while (well over five minutes) before the band get back on. Touched By The Hand Of God BS: "Okay, Russ, this is a new song that I've never played before, so you have to bear with us. (bass notes) It's called Touched By The Hand Of God." And then...probably in response to the rabid songcallers... Bernard mocks those who would have the band do the obvious. BS: "...play Joy Division songs cuz the singer's dead." (plenty of time to do that later, it turns out...) As one might expect, this sounds like the soundtrack (original) release, but is surprisingly well-formed considering that this is only the fourth time New Order had performed this. New Order segue right into Sister Ray. This version sounds slightly more coherent than the scratch vocals that often get laid down. Otherwise, it's the strumpet of cachophony and chaos we all know and enjoy, the drums slow down near the end, even! The PA then blares Echo's Rescue (for a second I thought NO was playing)... and then the tape stops. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- 'TV Makes The Superstar' is sooo...mid-80s. Hi-Five would have had a hit with it. Since retro-80s is back in the land of chic, I can't say I harbor any particular disliking for this annoyingly catchy tune. But the year is still young! - --Sam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 11:21:42 EDT From: GaoBest@aol.com Subject: Re: (Fac33) writeup for 870204 - The Galaxy, Auckland, New Zealand In a message dated 5/26/03 2:52:09 AM, the@new-order.net writes: << Bizarre Love Triangle starts up with bass feedback, and there's bad dropouts about 15 and 30 seconds in. The outro is also strummed through,, and true to form, another dance song, Confusion, follows. The sound is a bit dodgy through this one. >> Fabulous review - thanks! I must justify/explain the BLT sound - this is DEFINITELY from my PERSONAL cassette, with aging and such - I am positive that the master cassette does NOT have this problem. It isn't really dropouts, it's just some major cassette phasing (as BLT is at the start of Side 2). There seems to be a bit of bass PA feedback/throb on BLT/Confusion which is irrelevant to the cassette. The guy who taped the gig told me a few times that he would try to copy his old New order master tapes to CDR, but as he's quite busy, I couldn't really wait; so it just made sense to do it myself. If fresh copies ever do surface, rest assured that if I get them, I'll make them available again. It may take another decade or so - but I fear that the NO '87 Australia tour will still be the most interesting of New Order concerts and music in general. I look forward to hearing/reading what other NO list members think of these gigs. xox Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 10:37:14 -0700 From: Sam Habash Subject: Re: (Fac33) writeup for 870204 - The Galaxy, Auckland, New Zealand On Mon, May 26, 2003 at 11:21:42AM -0400, GaoBest@aol.com wrote: > Fabulous review - thanks! You're welcome. It's not really a review in the sense that "wow, they were really ON that night" or "gee, who spiked the Pernod", but rather, my somewhat feeble attempt to more closely document what happens. It's most useful to get new Barneyisms or alternate lyrics/tunings. > I must justify/explain the BLT sound - this is DEFINITELY from my PERSONAL > cassette, with aging and such - I am positive that the master cassette does NOT > have this problem. It isn't really dropouts, it's just some major cassette > phasing (as BLT is at the start of Side 2). There seems to be a bit of bass PA > feedback/throb on BLT/Confusion which is irrelevant to the cassette. Thanks for the explanation. Yeah, the feedback/throb was what was coming over the PA, even the best of gear can't compensate for the environmentals, which can vary from track to track. > The guy who taped the gig told me a few times that he would try to copy his > old New order master tapes to CDR, but as he's quite busy, I couldn't really > wait; so it just made sense to do it myself. If fresh copies ever do surface, > rest assured that if I get them, I'll make them available again. It may take > another decade or so - but I fear that the NO '87 Australia tour will still be > the most interesting of New Order concerts and music in general. Heh, I believe you, and am overjoyed that you have your timeframes in perspective. That sounds like a really strange thing to say, but it's not like any of us are going anywhere, and unless we suddenly expire, in which case we won't care and it'll be our executor's problem, we can wait. > I look forward to hearing/reading what other NO list members think of these > gigs. So do I. I'm sure a few list members were even there! - --Sam ------------------------------ End of ceremony-digest V2003 #30 ******************************** ------- + For information on subscribing/unsubscribing and the digest archives, + see the Ceremony web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to .