From: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org (ceremony-digest) To: ceremony-digest@monkey.org Subject: ceremony-digest V2003 #39 Reply-To: ceremony@monkey.org Sender: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org Errors-To: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org Precedence: bulk ------- + Ceremony list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + See the above site for subscribing/unsubscribing and back issues. ------- ceremony-digest Saturday, July 5 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 039 (Fac33) soundtrack (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #38 (Fac33) Quite interesting cover of LWTUA... (Fac33) test [off-topic] (Fac33) FAC 303 RE: (Fac33) FAC 303 Re: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #38 Re: (Fac33) FAC 303 RE: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #38 (Fac33) bit of tittle tattle Re: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #38 Re: (Fac33) bit of tittle tattle Re: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #38 Re: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #38 Re: Re: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #38 Re: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #38 (Fac33) OT : The Cure Re: (Fac33) soundtrack (Fac33) again: scratching on 2-18-87, esp intro for YSF Re: (Fac33) again: scratching on 2-18-87, esp intro for YSF Re: (Fac33) again: scratching on 2-18-87, esp intro for YSF (Fac33) writeup for 870218 Festival Hall - Melbourne (more scratches, and a riff) Re: (Fac33) writeup for 870218 Festival Hall - Melbourne (more scratches, and a riff) Re: (Fac33) writeup for 870218 Festival Hall - Melbourne (more scratches, and a riff) 2-17-87 BLT Re: (Fac33) writeup for 870218 Festival Hall - Melbourne (more scratches, and a riff) Re: (Fac33) writeup for 870218 Festival Hall - Melbourne (more scratches, and a riff) (Fac33) more 870217-8 stuff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:06:42 +0100 From: "John Barnes" Subject: (Fac33) soundtrack Yay Got me soundtrack CD from the design museum this morning, only took a week, ordering via e-mail, but hey... It's a v cool CD, I love it Cheers John B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:03:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Eddie Colton Subject: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #38 >>> Agreed - it's really, really good. >>> >>> Whoever says New Order has been dead since 1989 has their head up >>> their arse. >> >> That'll be Eddie "Eddz" Colton then. > > I'm sure Eddz will like it, or else find an imaginative reason > for dismissing it as tosh. Hey, give me a break. I didn't even know it was new material! People just started talking about it in digest #35 as if it had already been discussed. No one mentioned what was on it. I just assumed it was another toss compilation by London with the same old singles we've heard a thousand times. Since they decided to milk the cash cow in yet another underhanded way, I'll probably never even hear it. But hey, if New Order's going to make great music for fleeting lowkey projects and put out crap like Get Ready for the masses, then may their pockets be forever full of lint. Judging from the sheer lack of New Order at most music stores, I'd say Joe Average has no real interest in the band. And I'd much rather have the Retro bonus disc than the rest of the box. However, they seem to like making their fans jump through hoops to get material. Like they're trying to keep that Factory spirit alive even though they sold out. Why can't they play by the rules and sell out all the way for once?? ********** >>> I guess nobody mentionned it yet... >>> >>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? >>> ViewItem&item=3D2541990258&categor=y=3D27351 >> >> wonder how hard it would be to authenticate something like that >> nowadays, other than taking someone's word i'd be scared to toss >> that much money at something that hasn't got some 3rd party >> verification. > > their music isn't going to sound any different if you have all > that stuff sitting in a box somewhere, is it? Man, this makes me sick. That some git would pawn off priceless treasures on eBay because they can't keep up with their credit card bill, which was probably racked up on eBay in the first place. They didn't even post a sob story about how they're flat broke and their mother needs a new kidney. It's so wrong to make money off of this stuff. Priceless means no price can be attached. But I guess you can put a price on anything, even your memories. Christ. If they really do have Ian's first autograph, this shit should be in a museum. Why would someone who so obviously cares enough to collect all this in the first place change so much as to sell it to a faceless buyer? I mean they could have at least said, "I'm old enough now to realize this stuff is no longer meaningful to me, but I'm willing to get lots of money for it from some sentimental sucker," and that would have been honest. I don't have a problem with people selling stuff, but when it's a whole collection like this, it always irks me. On the one hand, it may be shallow to put value on an autograph, but on the other hand, how much better is it to put price on something that once had meaning? What is worse, collecting or greed? This was all supposedly acquired while still new, which means very little was paid for it, and now the collector has become the scalper, the evil vendor who charges people for their vices. I would rather believe this is all fake autographs and items bought cheap from little old ladies whose sons killed themselves in the 80s than ponder what would make someone become what they hate. And I think any of us who have paid through the nose for our collections will admit we hated the fat greasy bastards who sold it to us, even though we know, pathetic as we are, that we have more of a soul than they ever will. Sorry to get philosophical on you. If I had money, I'd be all over eBay like stink on a skunk, but as much of a boon as it is to the internet, it harbors some really foul evil as well. Bloody eBay. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 01:06:22 -0400 From: Nicolas LeBlanc Subject: (Fac33) Quite interesting cover of LWTUA... http://www.vitalvinyl.com/album/41047.info You can listen to the full thing, it's done by a germand band called Kay-Cee... This site is a vinyl shop though, but the CD can be found at Amazon.de ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 01:27:59 EDT From: Cynflux@aol.com Subject: (Fac33) test [off-topic] i'm having problems posting to the list. this is just a test post. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 01:44:06 EDT From: Cynflux@aol.com Subject: (Fac33) FAC 303 i bought the CD a while back on eBay. i copied the audio tracks to my hard drive. i mixed the 6 parts together using a multi-tracking program and alejo's sonic advice. there was an mp3 of 'the happy one' floating around some new order web pages a while back. the quality of the recording was poor and it was pasted together poorly. now if they could only released MTO on CD, i could finally complete my new order b-sides collection. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 01:50:06 -0400 From: Nicolas LeBlanc Subject: RE: (Fac33) FAC 303 Thanks.. :-( I did my best when I did the cut and paste job, it was recording from = the Substance 89 video! I have the Palatine sampler though, but it's impossible to mix them together, they don't fit! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ceremony@monkey.org [mailto:owner-ceremony@monkey.org] On = Behalf Of Cynflux@aol.com Sent: July 2, 2003 1:44 AM To: ceremony@monkey.org Subject: (Fac33) FAC 303 i bought the CD a while back on eBay. i copied the audio tracks to my hard drive. i mixed the 6 parts together using a multi-tracking program and alejo's sonic=20 advice. there was an mp3 of 'the happy one' floating around some new order web = pages a while back. the quality of the recording was poor and it was pasted together poorly. now if they could only released MTO on CD, i could = finally complete my new=20 order b-sides collection. - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 02:14:42 EDT From: Cynflux@aol.com Subject: Re: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #38 << Sorry to get philosophical on you. If I had money, I'd be all over eBay like stink on a skunk, but as much of a boon as it is to the internet, it harbors some really foul evil as well. Bloody eBay. >> you got that right. for example, someone on this list who bids and always wins on every rare New Order items on eBay, uses a software program that places an automatic bid of some astronomical amount 5 seconds before an auction closes. basically, no one has a chance in hell of winning except him. obviously, he has more money than what he knows what to do with. you know who you are. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 02:49:31 EDT From: Cynflux@aol.com Subject: Re: (Fac33) FAC 303 << Thanks.. :-( >> turn that frown upside down. i'm not critizing you. i'm a musician, so my ears are picky. i can't help it. << I did my best when I did the cut and paste job, it was recording from the Substance 89 video! >> i appreciate your hard work. with your initial "mix" and alejo's advice, i was inspired to create a different "mix". you probably recorded it before you got the Palatine sampler, right? << I have the Palatine sampler though, but it's impossible to mix them together, they don't fit! >> 'the happy one' on the Palatine sampler has better sound quality to my ears. that's true. you have to get creative mixing them together. i used volume envelopes on some parts and had to take different pieces out. timing the parts together required the most patience. i don't think there is official complete "mix" of 'the happy one'. i just created a "mix" which sounded good to my ears. it may sound like absolute shite to someone else. my "mix" had the "parts" occuring in numerical order. alejo had a theory about the order of the 6 parts of 'the happy one'. although i can't remember his exact order, his "mix" sounded more like the 'other side of midnight' version. it was fun new order project. it reminded me a bit of the contest where people could do a remix of 'Crystal'. kind regards P.S. I wonder what -1's "mix" would have sounded like. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:41:19 +0100 From: "Duddridge Lee" Subject: RE: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #38 Welcome back Eddz. Always nice to read your stuff, even though I usually disagree ;-) Love your final sentence though !! Lee - -----Original Message----- From: Eddie Colton [mailto:bratpop@yahoo.com] Sent: 01 July 2003 21:04 To: ceremony@monkey.org Subject: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #38 >>> Agreed - it's really, really good. >>>=20 >>> Whoever says New Order has been dead since 1989 has their head up >>> their arse. >> >> That'll be Eddie "Eddz" Colton then. > > I'm sure Eddz will like it, or else find an imaginative reason > for dismissing it as tosh. Hey, give me a break. I didn't even know it was new material! People just started talking about it in digest #35 as if it had already been discussed. No one mentioned what was on it. I just assumed it was another toss compilation by London with the same old singles we've heard a thousand times. Since they decided to milk the cash cow in yet another underhanded way, I'll probably never even hear it. But hey, if New Order's going to make great music for fleeting lowkey projects and put out crap like Get Ready for the masses, then may their pockets be forever full of lint. Judging from the sheer lack of New Order at most music stores, I'd say Joe Average has no real interest in the band. And I'd much rather have the Retro bonus disc than the rest of the box. However, they seem to like making their fans jump through hoops to get material. Like they're trying to keep that Factory spirit alive even though they sold out. Why can't they play by the rules and sell out all the way for once?? ********** >>> I guess nobody mentionned it yet... >>>=20 >>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? >>> ViewItem&item=3D3D2541990258&categor=3Dy=3D3D27351 >> >> wonder how hard it would be to authenticate something like that >> nowadays, other than taking someone's word i'd be scared to toss >> that much money at something that hasn't got some 3rd party >> verification. > > their music isn't going to sound any different if you have all > that stuff sitting in a box somewhere, is it? Man, this makes me sick. That some git would pawn off priceless treasures on eBay because they can't keep up with their credit card bill, which was probably racked up on eBay in the first place. They didn't even post a sob story about how they're flat broke and their mother needs a new kidney. It's so wrong to make money off of this stuff. Priceless means no price can be attached. But I guess you can put a price on anything, even your memories. Christ. If they really do have Ian's first autograph, this shit should be in a museum. Why would someone who so obviously cares enough to collect all this in the first place change so much as to sell it to a faceless buyer? I mean they could have at least said, "I'm old enough now to realize this stuff is no longer meaningful to me, but I'm willing to get lots of money for it from some sentimental sucker," and that would have been honest. I don't have a problem with people selling stuff, but when it's a whole collection like this, it always irks me. On the one hand, it may be shallow to put value on an autograph, but on the other hand, how much better is it to put price on something that once had meaning? What is worse, collecting or greed? This was all supposedly acquired while still new, which means very little was paid for it, and now the collector has become the scalper, the evil vendor who charges people for their vices. I would rather believe this is all fake autographs and items bought cheap from little old ladies whose sons killed themselves in the 80s than ponder what would make someone become what they hate. And I think any of us who have paid through the nose for our collections will admit we hated the fat greasy bastards who sold it to us, even though we know, pathetic as we are, that we have more of a soul than they ever will. Sorry to get philosophical on you. If I had money, I'd be all over eBay like stink on a skunk, but as much of a boon as it is to the internet, it harbors some really foul evil as well. Bloody eBay. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com =0A= =0A= Confidentiality and Disclaimer: This email and its attachments are = intended for the addressee only and may be confidential or the subject = of legal privilege. If this email and its attachments have come to you = in error you must take no action based on them, nor must you copy them, = distribute them or show them to anyone. Please contact the sender to = notify us of the error. This email and any attached files have been = scanned for the presence of computer viruses. However, you are advised = that you open any attachments at your own risk. - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:56:41 +0100 From: David Sydenham Subject: (Fac33) bit of tittle tattle Of small interest... Johnny Marr was on BBC 3 re:covered last night and when questioned who he had found the hardest to please musically in the studio he said "barney". H= e said barney was a perfectionist and that he didn=B9t like him drinking and partying around the studio, or words to that effect. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:12:30 EDT From: GaoBest@aol.com Subject: Re: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #38 Oooh - who is it? Anyway, there are several auction-sniping-related shareware programs out there, aren't there? And eBay is a buyer market, so those with money to burn are going to have a strong advantage. I still enjoy watching an auction at the end, sometimes bidding & winning, sometimes bidding & losing. The best part of eBay is that you realize that there really aren't that many truly "rare" items - - stuff that we think is rare isn't so rare when a few of the same item are available during the same 10-day span... x Mike In a message dated 7/1/03 11:15:26 PM, Cynflux@aol.com writes: << << Sorry to get philosophical on you. If I had money, I'd be all over eBay like stink on a skunk, but as much of a boon as it is to the internet, it harbors some really foul evil as well. Bloody eBay. >> you got that right. for example, someone on this list who bids and always wins on every rare New Order items on eBay, uses a software program that places an automatic bid of some astronomical amount 5 seconds before an auction closes. basically, no one has a chance in hell of winning except him. obviously, he has more money than what he knows what to do with. you know who you are. >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 13:11:11 -0300 From: almanso Subject: Re: (Fac33) bit of tittle tattle hehehe, why? only HE could do it? :) alejo > Of small interest.. >=20 > Johnny Marr was on BBC 3 re:covered last night and when questioned who he > had found the hardest to please musically in the studio he said "barney".= He > said barney was a perfectionist and that he didn=B9t like him drinking and > partying around the studio, or words to that effect. >=20 > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:28:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Dignam Subject: Re: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #38 - --- Eddie Colton wrote: > If they really do have Ian's first autograph, this > shit should be in a museum. > This was all supposedly acquired while still new, > which means very little was paid for it, and now the > collector has become the scalper, > we know, pathetic as we are, that we have more > of a soul than they ever will. A JD/NO museum? Wow! Never happen... Will the flash cnut who wins the auction (if you're on the list) please make the items of real interest available for viewing? Unlikely... You're right Eddie - nothing but greedy hoarding of treasure. Scalping you, me and every other genuine person who has been affected by this music. We are not pathetic, Eddie. Go home. Put your headphones on. "This is the way - step inside." We all have Ian's autograph inside our heads. All day. Every day. Forever. AtB Mark ramsesblue@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:56:15 +0100 From: "Mark Reed" Subject: Re: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #38 No, would never happen, not whilst the Design Museum has an incredible amount of NO/JD stuff at it... To anyone who hasn't been and can go, I would strongly, strongly recommend it. The wall sized collage of the Republic sleeves is just beautiful, as are the unused New Order artworks (Waste #1,2,3 I think they are called). Shame the merch doesn't include a decent shirt with buttons on it. Mark - ----- Original Message ----- A JD/NO museum? Wow! Never happen... Will the flash cnut who wins the auction (if you're on the list) please make the items of real interest available for viewing? Unlikely... You're right Eddie - nothing but greedy hoarding of treasure. Scalping you, me and every other genuine person who has been affected by this music. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:50:03 +0200 From: "Mr. X" Subject: Re: Re: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #38 >We are not pathetic, Eddie. >We all have Ian's autograph inside our heads. >All day. Every day. >Forever. MMMmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......................................... no. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger 6 http://g.msn.fr/FR1001/866 : ajoutez une image à votre pseudo pour dialoguer avec vos amis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 05:14:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Dignam Subject: Re: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #38 - --- Mark Reed wrote: > No, would never happen, not whilst the Design Museum > has an incredible > amount of NO/JD stuff at it... > > To anyone who hasn't been and can go, I would > strongly, strongly recommend > it. That'd be tomorrow morning at about 10.00 so... Flying over this evening. Can just about wait! (another) Mark ramsesblue@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:13:40 +0100 From: Brian McGee Subject: (Fac33) OT : The Cure Lads Anyone know is there still a Cure mailing list? Descent and Babble seem to be gone? Brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:39:12 -0400 From: "Brian Cameron" Subject: Re: (Fac33) soundtrack Mine arrived today -- less than two weeks to Canada. Anyone who *can't* afford the 16pound cost (that's about $40 Canadian, but I'm a NewOrder whore, so I spent the cash) and you can't get it off the net, is welcome to the copy I scammed from the site before the file was removed. Bri > Yay > Got me soundtrack CD from the design museum this morning, only took a week, > ordering via e-mail, but hey... It's a v cool CD, I love it > > Cheers > John B. > > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to . > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 03:01:28 EDT From: GaoBest@aol.com Subject: (Fac33) again: scratching on 2-18-87, esp intro for YSF I know others have heard this. So is this scratching or what? I'm so fucking confused. did New Order have an onstage DJ for this show? I don't "hear" any scratching for any other Feb 1987 Australia tour concerts. So confused! Mike xx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 01:05:15 -0700 From: Sam Habash Subject: Re: (Fac33) again: scratching on 2-18-87, esp intro for YSF On Fri, Jul 04, 2003 at 03:01:28AM -0400, GaoBest@aol.com wrote: > I know others have heard this. So is this scratching or what? I'm so fucking > confused. did New Order have an onstage DJ for this show? I don't "hear" any > scratching for any other Feb 1987 Australia tour concerts. I've saved your prior email in my inbox waiting until I've gotten around to listening to this gig to answer, but okay, I guess I'll have to listen to the 870218 gig now. Expect a full writeup shortly... As to what you're hearing, That's not scratching...it sounds more like an analogue synth oscillator. It's still a really cool sound. I'll make an MP3 of this and put it online for all of you who don't have a copy. http://www.new-order.net/no/audio/lv/New_Order-19870218-YSFscratch.mp3 (the 'scratching' can be heard about 20 seconds in) Sam - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Of course, there are limits to diversity, earth is a single point of failure for the foreseeable future." -- Sean Donelan - --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 05:55:49 -0300 From: almanso Subject: Re: (Fac33) again: scratching on 2-18-87, esp intro for YSF in my opinion is hooky=B4s electronic drums with some effect maybe. definetel= y not scratching. alejo > I know others have heard this. So is this scratching or what? I'm so fuc= king > confused. did New Order have an onstage DJ for this show? I don't "hear"= any > scratching for any other Feb 1987 Australia tour concerts. >=20 > So confused! > Mike xx > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 01:50:40 -0700 From: Sam Habash Subject: (Fac33) writeup for 870218 Festival Hall - Melbourne (more scratches, and a riff) Full writeup at http://www.new-order.net/no/gigs/nogigs.html#NO-870218 The first "scratch" can be heard between BM and The Village, it is even more pronounced than the one in the YSF intro. it kind of sounds like 'Are You Experienced'. Have a listen at: http://www.new-order.net/no/audio/lv/New_Order-19870218-BM-TVscratch.mp3 Between The Village and Shellshock, there's an interesting bit of riffing that's pretty nice. Here it is: http://www.new-order.net/no/audio/lv/New_Order-19870218-TVriff.mp3 I can see why Mike likes this one, but the bad clearly didn't, given all the sound problems they were having, which seemed to be prevalent throughout the latter part of the Australian tour. To wit, after Temptation, Barney asks the audience, "How much was it to get in tonight anyway?" His droll reply, "Too much!". Take care, - --Sam - --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Of course, there are limits to diversity, earth is a single point of failure for the foreseeable future." -- Sean Donelan - --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 05:12:28 EDT From: GaoBest@aol.com Subject: Re: (Fac33) writeup for 870218 Festival Hall - Melbourne (more scratches, and a riff) Yo! In a message dated 7/5/03 1:51:18 AM, the@new-order.net writes: << To wit, after Temptation, Barney asks the audience, "How much was it to get in tonight anyway?" His droll reply, "Too much!". >> Actually - the "Too much" sounds more like a question (as if he heard someone saying "Too much!" and he simply repeats it, or he was being rhetorically cheeky) and not an exclamatory reply! This is around the 54:00 mark on my itunes version (ie, cdr copies sourced from me). Check it out - do you guys think Barney's stating an exclamation or question? :-) The setlist for this Melbourne show is amazing - aside from the fabulous YSF/PK encore, the band performed mega hits Blue Monday, Temptation, and BLT. I won't even mention the other singles that were performed. That Blue Monday was played as the second song... just fantastic! Most bands would want to play it first or near the end of their set, knowing it's their mega mega hit. New Order just play it when they wish :-) At the 34:32 mark (per my itunes timing), for "Subculture" instrumental section (towards the end, but not yet at the end of the song), I also hear some minor "scratching" for about 10 seconds and I still don't know what its source is. I've read other opinions. I'm just totally confused. This is the pre-keyboard (sequenced), "drum feature" part of the instrumentation. Very very cool. I also like how the band play "Subculture" then "Face Up" just like on PFD performance. I still don't understand why I hear this scratching on this show, but NOT on any other Feb '87 recording! What made this show so unique to get the scratching? As for the guitar riffs after "The Village" - I think New order have done this riff part in other shows. It's similar to Hooky still noodling on bass after a song has ended, Barney is chastizing the sound engineer, and the band is getting ready to do the next song (most noticably for "This Time of Night" on PFD DVD). I really love the start of YSF, how someone in the crowd cheers during the initial synths of YSF, and then later counts "1, 2, 3, 4..." - it's so fucking adorable. I've never tried to list my favorite Feb '87 Oz tour gigs, but I'd probably place this show near the top. It's just so fucking amazing. OK and it helps that the sound quality of the recording is so fucking excellent! That really helps. It makes such a difference. Much better than a mixing desk recording (which masks the guitar - no really, it does!). And the guy who taped it is originally from New Zealand, and not Australia!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also personal for Mr. M Crane Esquire, I've tossed a pack of CDRs into a mailbox today, and I hope it reaches you sooner than later :-) Off to have another cigarette and port (gotta love a 3-day weekend)/ Mike xx np 2-18-87 YSF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 02:56:41 -0700 From: Sam Habash Subject: Re: (Fac33) writeup for 870218 Festival Hall - Melbourne (more scratches, and a riff) On Sat, Jul 05, 2003 at 05:12:28AM -0400, GaoBest@aol.com wrote: > Actually - the "Too much" sounds more like a question (as if he heard someone > saying "Too much!" and he simply repeats it, or he was being rhetorically > cheeky) and not an exclamatory reply! This is around the 54:00 mark on my > itunes version (ie, cdr copies sourced from me). Check it out - do you > guys think Barney's stating an exclamation or question? :-) On further reflection, I think you're probably right. The pause gives it away. "We suck, but we don't give a fuck" being the modus operandi... > New Order just play [Blue Monday] when they wish :-) And even when they don't (wish) but still feel obligated to punt it out. :-) > At the 34:32 mark (per my itunes timing), for "Subculture" instrumental > section (towards the end, but not yet at the end of the song), I also hear > some minor "scratching" for about 10 seconds and I still don't know what > its source is. I've read other opinions. I'm just totally confused. This > is the pre-keyboard (sequenced), "drum feature" part of the instrumentation. > Very very cool. Yeah, missed that one. I think there are only a total of three of these. > I still don't understand why I hear this scratching on this show, but NOT on > any other Feb '87 recording! What made this show so unique to get the > scratching? I think they were a result of technical problems. Barney says something after Face Up that I can't quite decipher which may shed light on the matter There also frequent chirping sounds, probably also due to equipment going wonky. Wonder how hot it was in Melbourne that night? > As for the guitar riffs after "The Village" - I think New order have done > this riff part in other shows. It's similar to Hooky still noodling on bass > after a song has ended, Barney is chastizing the sound engineer, and the band > is getting ready to do the next song (most noticably for "This Time of Night" > on PFD DVD). Well, it's got some accompaniment. It could also be a coda for The Village, I'd have to listen to other performances to have a better idea. > I really love the start of YSF, how someone in the crowd cheers during the > initial synths of YSF, and then later counts "1, 2, 3, 4..." - it's so fucking Now available online for posterity... > I've never tried to list my favorite Feb '87 Oz tour gigs, but I'd probably > place this show near the top. It's just so fucking amazing. OK and it helps > that the sound quality of the recording is so fucking excellent! That really > helps. It makes such a difference. Much better than a mixing desk recording > (which masks the guitar - no really, it does!). And the guy who taped it is > originally from New Zealand, and not Australia!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, agreed. The sound quality is superb. It's up there with Roxy's, Byron Bay, and Selina's wrt to the performance. Oh, my tape copy of the gig on the previous night (17 FEB 87, The Venue, in Melbourne) is a bit odd. I haven't listened to your CD copy yet, but my notes show that the particular taper in question was interrupted during Bizarre Love Triangle by some woman. That gig is also noteworthy for featuring Dreams Never End, and lots of dirty variations of classic lyrics. I'm gonna listen to this one next. I'm guessing more than one person taped this, so I'm looking forward to the differences. (my copy sounds like it was 4th generation) (from my notes) Cover has '84-85 era picture of the band...Gilbert and Sumner are looking skyward, and Hooky, wearing one of his wacky T-shirts ("The Land The..." "You Go To Heaven..." anybody know the full message?), is facing right, snarling. Morris is also facing right. Sam - -- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 06:09:24 EDT From: GaoBest@aol.com Subject: 2-17-87 BLT Re: (Fac33) writeup for 870218 Festival Hall - Melbourne (more scratches, and a riff) Hrm - my copy of this show doesn't feature any interruptions on BLT (second song - after Love Vigilantes) but I remember *one* of the Feb '87 shows having an interruption or something like that. I forget which gig - maybe this one, for a different tune? I just don't remember. But I did hear it sometime during a June listening session. x Mike In a message dated 7/5/03 2:56:45 AM, the@new-order.net writes: << Oh, my tape copy of the gig on the previous night (17 FEB 87, The Venue, in Melbourne) is a bit odd. I haven't listened to your CD copy yet, but my notes show that the particular taper in question was interrupted during Bizarre Love Triangle by some woman. That gig is also noteworthy for featuring Dreams Never End, and lots of dirty variations of classic lyrics. I'm gonna listen to this one next. I'm guessing more than one person taped this, so I'm looking forward to the differences. (my copy sounds like it was 4th generation) >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 07:46:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "Andrew J. Lillie" Subject: Re: (Fac33) writeup for 870218 Festival Hall - Melbourne (more scratches, and a riff) On Sat, 5 Jul 2003, Sam Habash wrote: > The first "scratch" can be heard between BM and The Village, it is > even more pronounced than the one in the YSF intro. it kind of sounds > like 'Are You Experienced'. Have a listen at: > http://www.new-order.net/no/audio/lv/New_Order-19870218-BM-TVscratch.mp3 For what its worth, this "scratch" is actually just the sound of a pick being scraped edge-wise along a string. From the sounds of the mp3, its most likely a bass. So, I imagine this big mystery boils down to nothing more than Hooky being bored that night and screwing around making "scratching" sounds with his bass. - -=A=- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 09:42:42 -0700 From: Sam Habash Subject: (Fac33) more 870217-8 stuff On Sat, Jul 05, 2003 at 06:09:24AM -0400, GaoBest@aol.com wrote: > Hrm - my copy of this show doesn't feature any interruptions on BLT (second > song - after Love Vigilantes) but I remember *one* of the Feb '87 shows having > an interruption or something like that. I forget which gig - maybe this one, > for a different tune? I just don't remember. But I did hear it sometime > during a June listening session. It's very likely these shows were taped by more than one person, I know for a fact that the 870218 gig was, as the second copy it turns out i have is _a lot_ more audience ambience, and also doesn't have muted eqs for the side B tunes (you can hear it between Face Up and Age Of Consent). However, both Bernard and the scratches are less audible on this copy, which has also sadly undergone some post-processing. I even have a third copy I haven't listened to yet, which is marked as "third generation". Unfourtunately, it's not here, so I don't know any more about it. Back to the 870217 show, I've started taking a stab at it. It looks like that this gig was taped by no less than _3_ different people, as between BLT and Dreams Never End, as one copy has a punter very LOUDLY calling out "Ceremony, you bastard!", which is faint in yours, and apparently inaudible in the third copy I have on tape that I did the original writeup for (http://www.new-order.net/no/gigs/nogigs.html#NO-870217), since I didn't bother to notice it, but as mentioned before, that copy has some dialog that's not present in the other two copies, and your copy has a tape pause after Dreams Never End that the other two don't have. Oh, the 870217 disc has some filler as the fifth (last) track, with some announcer talking about some art gallery show and bringing your own booze before the song (a punkish number with female vocals reminiscent of early Siouxie Sioux, but with male vocals) Do you have an ID for that? It would be interesting to compile a list of sources for the Australian tour. My head is spinning a bit, so I'll stop here. - --Sam - --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Of course, there are limits to diversity, earth is a single point of failure for the foreseeable future." -- Sean Donelan - --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of ceremony-digest V2003 #39 ******************************** ------- + For information on subscribing/unsubscribing and the digest archives, + see the Ceremony web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to .