From: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org (ceremony-digest) To: ceremony-digest@monkey.org Subject: ceremony-digest V2003 #60 Reply-To: ceremony@monkey.org Sender: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org Errors-To: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org Precedence: bulk ------- + Ceremony list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + See the above site for subscribing/unsubscribing and back issues. ------- ceremony-digest Thursday, December 18 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 060 (Fac33) [preview] -> _international_2(sound_quality_issues_faq)_____ (Fac33) -1's Compilation (Fac33) [timeline] -> __new_order____international_2(distribution)___ Re: (Fac33) [timeline] -> __new_order____international_2(distribution)___ (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale (Fac33) New Order aka BE Music Productions 2LP @ ebay 2LP mint (Item #2580580806) Re: (Fac33) Re: [reply] -> _1963___new_order__international_2____ 051203____ Re: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale RE: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale (Fac33) Silly Money Re: (Fac33) Silly Money (7-7-83) RE: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale RE: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale RE: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale RE: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale RE: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale RE: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale Re: (Fac33) Silly Money (7-7-83) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:15:37 -0600 From: "-1" Subject: (Fac33) [preview] -> _international_2(sound_quality_issues_faq)_____ 'then i knew it from the start' international 2 - --------------- sound quality issues faq - -------------------------- q: i thought you said that the vinyl tracks were remastered, so why do they sound so bad? a: the tracks do have some noise, hum, rumble and clicks in there.. there is NO way to remove all the noise from the tracks without reducing the dynamics of the tracks.. yes, i have used some sound reduction filters, and some manual processing.. but remember, i am not a sound engineer...what do you expect for free? - ----------- q: you mentioned some special cases for the tracks..what about those? a: two of the tracks were from a flexi-disc..(which is a special thin plastic sheet)..i have tried to reduce the noise on those also.. with some luck.....also there are two tracks from cassette...so unless there are better masters out there.. this is as good as it gets. - ------------- q: i hope the cd-tracks sound as good.. a: yes, i have digitally ripped all the cd-tracks, and laserdisc tracks have been digitally transferred.. there is some noise in laserdisc tracks...but i have tried to remove that also..(except the 'blue monday(sunkist)' which already had noise in it ).. - ---------------- q: you mentioned that some tracks are 're-creations' from cd, what does that mean? a: i have listened closely to some of the vinyl, and video tracks.. and noted the times for the edits.. what i did then, was go back and re-create them using the best quality cd-tracks....that means that they are NOT THE OFFICIAL versions...but are virtually indistinguishable from them.. for the purists, i can get you the original tracks, but i think the poor quality of them detracts from listening to them.. - ---------------- overall, the volume levels should be okay.. i have listened to the tracks with the following: 1) computer speakers 2) headphones 3) in my car (on minidiscs) on headphones, you can hear the most noise..but on the others, it sounds fine... overall - ----------- cd tracks - same quality vinyl - some noise, clicks, rumble flexi - some rumble cassette - some hiss more notes can found for each track in the liner notes... later | || | | || || ne gativ e 1 'thinking hard' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:00:55 -0800 (PST) From: "Hardy, Joe" Subject: (Fac33) -1's Compilation Cool deal! I can't wait! > ok, > we're at the final stages of > finishing of the discs now.. > > i've got a few more sound > issues to deal with, but > that won't take long.. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:08:26 -0600 From: "-1" Subject: (Fac33) [timeline] -> __new_order____international_2(distribution)___ [timeline] 'cos its a state of the nation' hey no'ers, here is my timeline for the events concerning 'international 2' releases, and events... new order - international 2 - ---------------------------- mid-december '03 - finalize tracklistings - master discs - finish liner-notes - create artwork - get list of all the people that can distribute discs - --------------------------- late december '03 - send out discs to the master duplicators - get comments back, and send out new discs if necessary - --------------------------- early january '04 - start getting list of interested people that want copies - --------------------------- end of january '04 - close list for people wanting copies - --------------------------- february '04 -?'04 - start sending out copies later || || | | || ne g ative 1 'but common sense i never had' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:39:27 -0500 From: "M. T. Weidner" Subject: Re: (Fac33) [timeline] -> __new_order____international_2(distribution)___ Man, as a fan who does not have all of this, this sounds awesome! Count me in. I cannot wait!! M. - -1 wrote: >[timeline] > >'cos its a state of the nation' > >hey no'ers, > >here is my timeline >for the events concerning >'international 2' releases, >and events... > > >new order - international 2 >---------------------------- >mid-december '03 - finalize tracklistings > - master discs > - finish liner-notes > - create artwork > - get list of all the > people that can distribute discs >--------------------------- >late december '03 - send out discs to the > master duplicators > - get comments back, > and send out new discs > if necessary >--------------------------- >early january '04 - start getting list of > interested people that want > copies >--------------------------- >end of january '04 - close list for people > wanting copies >--------------------------- >february '04 -?'04 - start sending out copies > > >later > >|| || | | || >ne g ative 1 > >'but common sense i never had' >------- >+ Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ >+ To talk to a person, send mail to . > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:16:44 -0800 (PST) From: David Sultan Subject: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale Follow this link to order Peter Saville official very limited print: www.paulstolper.com or email Info@paulstolper.com Peter Saville FAC 3 2003 edition of 500 , 30" x 20" (76X50.5cm). Peter Saville. published by Paul Stolper, 2003 Each print accompanied by a signed and numbered certificate. Peter Saville Fac 3 2003 In the UK £ 125 inc vat + postage Rest of Europe in the EU £ 130 inc vat + postage Rest of the World £ 120 inc postage Pay via www.paypal.com (add £2 for Paypal fee) (Paypal ID info@paulstolper.com) or Cheque payable to: Paul Stolper Ltd. 78 Luke Street London EC2A 4PY England tel/fax 0044 (0)20 7739 6504 Email Info@paulstolper.com Peter Saville FAC1 2003 edition of 500 , 40" x 30". Peter Saville. published by Paul Stolper, 2003 FAC 1 2003 print will be accompanied by a Peter Saville 'certificate, designed by Peter that will be signed and numbered. If you live outside of the EU you will not have to pay VAT FAC1 is now: In the UK £ 165 inc vat + postage Rest of Europe in the EU £ 170 inc vat + postage Rest of the World £ 160 inc postage Its twenty-five years since Peter Saville designed the now iconic FAC1, while still in his final term at Art College. Produced in 1978 for Tony Wilson, to publicise his new music venue, The Factory, FAC1 combined contemporary industrial signage with Jan Tschicholds Die Neue Typographie. The Use Hearing Protection sign was on a workshop door at college. I saw it everyday, and I knew that it had to be used for something. Recognised as a classic, the newly editioned FAC1 2003 coincides with The Peter Saville Show at the Design Museum, and Designed by Peter Saville, the long awaited monograph. For more works by Peter Saville please visit www.paulstolper.com Info@paulstolper.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:23:00 -0500 From: "costan@interlog.com" Subject: (Fac33) New Order aka BE Music Productions 2LP @ ebay 2LP mint (Item #2580580806) last day # ebay North American seller New Order aka BE Music Productions 2LP mint (Item #2580580806) http://cgi=2Eebay=2Ecom/ws/eBayISAPI=2Edll?ViewItem&item=3D2580580806 Mint copy from the limited edition of 1000 copies of the vinyl version of=20= COOL AS ICE - THE BE MUSIC PRODUCTIONS featuring rare 12" mixes from the early 1980s by members of New Order including Section 25's rare "From A Hilltop (Megamix)" by! British pressing=2E Please note that those tracks marked with an asterisk* were co-produced by= Be Music (Bernard Sumner) and DoJo (Donald Johnson, of A Certain Ratio)=2E= =20 A1=2E 52nd STREET "Can't Afford (To Let You Go) 6=2E50 produced by Bernard= Sumner for FAC 118 Sept 1984 2=2E SECTION 25 "Looking From A Hilltop (Megamix)" 8=2E07 * FAC 108 Jun= e 1985 3=2E LIFE "Tell Me" 3=2E04 FACT 106 April 1984 B1=2E MARCEL KING "Reach For Love" 5=2E25 * FAC 92 March 1984=20 B2=2E QUANDO QUANGO "Love Tempo" 6=2E58 * FBN 23 July 1983 =20 B3=2E THICK PIGEON "Babcock + Wilcox" 3=2E43 aka Stanton Miranda - album t= rack from FACT 85 Sept 1984 C1=2E 52nd STREET "Cool As Ice" 7=2E25 * FBN 20 Feb 1983=20 C2=2E PAUL HAIG "The Only Truth" 7=2E02 * TWI 390 Oct 1984 C3=2E New Order's Peter Hook aka BE MUSIC "Theme" 3=2E04 1983 D1=2E QUANDO QUANGO "Atom Rock" 6=2E42 * FAC 102 June 1984 D2=2E NYAM NYAM "Fate/Hate" 8=2E03 produced by Peter Hook - FBN 28 April 1= 984=20 D3=2E SECTION 25 "Beating Heart" 5=2E02 Unreleased mix for 12 FAC 68 June = 1983 =20 =20 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:43:22 -0800 From: Sam Habash Subject: Re: (Fac33) Re: [reply] -> _1963___new_order__international_2____ 051203____ On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 07:18:33PM -0800, Sam Habash wrote: (correcting myself...) > > > I'm fairly sure that they are not the same, with the Retro > > > version being heretofore unreleased. > > > > Ok. In that case, the Live Mix from the US 12" promo is taken from the > > Substance version (fade out, I guess). All I know is that we (supposedly) > > only have two "live" versions of TPK... > > (just summarizing our findings, as pedantic as it may seem) > > Looks like all the versions come from the same take. I'm not so sure now, after having some facts pointed out to be by some of the NOOL forum participants... > The Retro version adds comments by the participants before and after the take, > and looks to have been remastered, which seem to send Barney and his gear > lower into the mix. It's likely that at least some of the guitars and vocals were different, but are we talking about a different take entirely, or just using vocal and guitar parts from a different take to correct cock-ups. "Remastered" is a bad word. I may have said this before, but if anything, it's probably the Substance version that's been "corrected". > The promo 12" edit, as best as I remember, is a pretty rough internal edit > that takes out a good chunk of the song, probably for the purpose of making > the video airable (issues of length and Barney's "playing with your > pleasure zone" lyric). It's not that rough, and there is more than one edit. Maybe -1 did a writeup comapring the video edit version with the full one, I should endeavor to dig that up. - --Sam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:48:06 -0500 From: Cynflux@aol.com Subject: Re: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale no, thank you... ...but since you have more money than sense then why don't you buy this: * NEW ORDER Various Maxis And Singles (Rare 2001 US 67-track * set of SIX Reprise/Qwest promo-only CD-R acetate, features * mixes for Perfect Kiss, Sub Culture, True Faith Blue * Monday, Touched By The Hand Of God, 1963, Round And Round * and other classic tracks, over 6 hours of music, each disc * is custom printed and has it's own title/tracklisting * inlay, limited to TEN sets!) * US$ 935.00 / £ 550.00 * http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp?catalogid=268609&from=AG01D90 ___________________________________________________________ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 18:35:35 -0500 From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" Subject: RE: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale It's been bought believe it or not... What amazes me when people buy CDR promos is that, in 10 years, there = will be nothing on the CD, or maybe 20 years if they picked good quality, so you're actually buying something that will be worth 0 in the long run... - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ceremony@monkey.org [mailto:owner-ceremony@monkey.org] On = Behalf Of Cynflux@aol.com Sent: December 15, 2003 10:48 PM To: ceremony@monkey.org Subject: Re: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale no, thank you... ...but since you have more money than sense then why don't you buy this: * NEW ORDER Various Maxis And Singles (Rare 2001 US 67-track=20 * set of SIX Reprise/Qwest promo-only CD-R acetate, features=20 * mixes for Perfect Kiss, Sub Culture, True Faith Blue=20 * Monday, Touched By The Hand Of God, 1963, Round And Round=20 * and other classic tracks, over 6 hours of music, each disc=20 * is custom printed and has it's own title/tracklisting=20 * inlay, limited to TEN sets!)=20 * US$ 935.00 / =A3 550.00=20 * http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp?catalogid=3D268609&from=3DAG01D90=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 23:51:56 -0000 From: "Al Jarvis" Subject: (Fac33) Silly Money http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3370920099&category=424 52 But the seller is THE Kevin Cummins! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 18:59:39 EST From: GaoBest@aol.com Subject: Re: (Fac33) Silly Money (7-7-83) Who is Kevin Cummins? Wow, that's a lot for a piece of paper. xox Mike In a message dated 12/17/03 4:51:45 PM, al.jarvis@blueyonder.co.uk writes: << http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3370920099&category=424 52 But the seller is THE Kevin Cummins! >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 06:55:04 -0600 From: "Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T)" Subject: RE: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale > -----Original Message----- > From: Nicolas LeBlanc [mailto:nleblanc@neworderonline.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 6:36 PM [expensive and rare 6xCDR at Esprit] > It's been bought believe it or not... > > What amazes me when people buy CDR promos is that, in 10 > years, there will > be nothing on the CD, or maybe 20 years if they picked good > quality, so > you're actually buying something that will be worth 0 in the > long run... Well, from another point of view... http://uk.glenfiddich.com/shop/rare.html has a vintage reserve whisky for 249UKP per bottle, a bottle having 750ml of this liquid. Say that you buy two bottles, that's 500UKP - about the same as this 6xCDR pack. Now you own 1500ml of whisky. Since it's a rare whisky you drink, say 30ml per month. In that case those two bottles, or your 500UKP, will last you a little bit more than 4 years. Much, much shorter than the life-time of a CDR... While you may not have as much fun with a CDR, it will at least not give you a hangover. Now, try to make a business case for the 10000UKP bottle they have... One day, in my idealized world, people will come to understand and accept collectors. T. NB: sorry for stepping on any toes of whisky-lovers... ;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:03:50 -0000 From: Brian McGee Subject: RE: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nicolas LeBlanc [mailto:nleblanc@neworderonline.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 6:36 PM > > [expensive and rare 6xCDR at Esprit] > > > It's been bought believe it or not... > > > > What amazes me when people buy CDR promos is that, in 10 > > years, there will > > be nothing on the CD, or maybe 20 years if they picked good > > quality, so Why? Don't understand, how the recordings will vanish from the CDRs?? Brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:10:33 -0600 From: "Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T)" Subject: RE: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian McGee [mailto:Brian.McGee@Sentrio.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 8:04 AM > > Why? Don't understand, how the recordings will vanish from the CDRs?? http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq07.html#S7-5 T. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:26:32 -0000 From: Brian McGee Subject: RE: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale > -----Original Message----- > From: Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T) [mailto:tivarsson@lucent.com] > Sent: 18 December 2003 13:11 > To: 'ceremony@monkey.org' > Subject: RE: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brian McGee [mailto:Brian.McGee@Sentrio.com] > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 8:04 AM > > > > Why? Don't understand, how the recordings will vanish from > the CDRs?? > > http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq07.html#S7-5 > Still don't understand...? "The manufacturers claim 75 years (cyanine dye, used in "green" discs), 100 years (phthalocyanine dye, used in "gold" discs), or even 200 years ("advanced" phthalocyanine dye, used in "platinum" discs) once the disc has been written." That sounds like you get at least 75 years' worth? "The shelf life of an unrecorded disc has been estimated at between 5 and 10 years." This hardly applies to recorded discs then ?? Brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:33:21 -0500 From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" Subject: RE: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian McGee [mailto:Brian.McGee@Sentrio.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 8:04 AM > > Why? Don't understand, how the recordings will vanish from the CDRs?? Compared to a normal CD in aluminum, the material in which CDR are made is not timeless (aluminum neither though, but last a lot longer) It depends of course for how you keep it, but the warranty of each CDR is usually 10 up to 20 years. They can last longer (look at TLV's link), but the manufacturers don't risk it above 10 to 20 years... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:16:46 -0600 From: "Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T)" Subject: RE: (Fac33) Official FAC3 2003 on sale > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian McGee [mailto:Brian.McGee@Sentrio.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 8:27 AM > > > > Why? Don't understand, how the recordings will vanish from > > the CDRs?? > > > > http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq07.html#S7-5 > > > > Still don't understand...? > > "The manufacturers claim 75 years (cyanine dye, used in > "green" discs), 100 > years (phthalocyanine dye, used in "gold" discs), or even 200 years > ("advanced" phthalocyanine dye, used in "platinum" discs) > once the disc has been written." > > That sounds like you get at least 75 years' worth? > > "The shelf life of an unrecorded disc has been estimated at > between 5 and 10 years." > > This hardly applies to recorded discs then ?? True. But then again - depending on your level of paranoia - you may not want to take the manufacturers' words for it. When it comes to estimating life-cycles, everything is statistics. While the manufacturers estimate that the average life-time of a recorded CDR may be 75-100 years, your copy with a mpeg of your baby's first step may fail after 5 years. Do you want to risk that? Of course, in the case of CDR, it has a lot to do with how you handle the discs. You have to expect to transfer your digital information to new media (same or different types) after a while. Besides mechanical wear, the biggest risk for a CDR may be corrosion of the material. Corrosion will happen over time - nothing last forever. It has been reported that the first CDs from the early 80's a failing because of "CD rot" - due to poor manufacturing, air has slipped into the material and corroded some layer(s). This is why I will invest in a DVD burner so that I can encode my music-collection and back it up (along with other important files) - especially my New Order collection (to keep it on-topic...). Then after X years I can re-record the data onto another DVD or some other media - to prevent if from being destroyed. > -----Original Message----- > From: Nicolas LeBlanc [mailto:nleblanc@neworderonline.com] > > They can last longer (look at TLV's link), but the Not here Nick... :) T. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:02:09 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Dignam Subject: Re: (Fac33) Silly Money (7-7-83) Kevin Cummins is a photographer and Manchester City supporter. He took a lot of photos of Joy Division. Chances are he took you favourite snap of Ian... Man's a bit of a genius with a camera. AtB Mark ramsesblue@yahoo.com P.S. Isn't that a boring conversation about the lifespan of CDR's... P.P.S. Money is just pieces of paper too. - --- GaoBest@aol.com wrote: > Who is Kevin Cummins? Wow, that's a lot for a piece > of paper. > > xox > Mike > > > > In a message dated 12/17/03 4:51:45 PM, > al.jarvis@blueyonder.co.uk writes: > > << > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3370920099&category=424 > > 52 > > > But the seller is THE Kevin Cummins! >> > > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: > http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to . __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of ceremony-digest V2003 #60 ******************************** ------- + For information on subscribing/unsubscribing and the digest archives, + see the Ceremony web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to .