From: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org (ceremony-digest) To: ceremony-digest@monkey.org Subject: ceremony-digest V2003 #62 Reply-To: ceremony@monkey.org Sender: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org Errors-To: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org Precedence: bulk ------- + Ceremony list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + See the above site for subscribing/unsubscribing and back issues. ------- ceremony-digest Tuesday, December 30 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 062 (Fac33) Featuremist and Prime 586 Re: (Fac33) Age Of Consent/Temptation - Live in 1984 - BBC Radio 6 (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #61 (Fac33) [reply] -> _possession_ (Fac33) [update] -> _international_2_distribution____261203____ (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ Re: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ Re: (Fac33) Age Of Consent/Temptation - Live in 1984 - BBC Radio 6 Re: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ Re: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ RE: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ Re: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ and more offers Re: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ and more offers (Fac33) Thieves Like Us - Live in New York 1983 Re: (Fac33) Thieves Like Us - Live in New York 1983 (Fac33) Joy Division box set Re: (Fac33) Joy Division box set Re: (Fac33) Thieves Like Us - Live in New York 1983 Re: (Fac33) Thieves Like Us - Live in New York 1983 (Fac33) eschreamer again (Fac33) [update] -> ___international_2___requests_301203______ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 11:14:41 -0600 From: "Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T)" Subject: (Fac33) Featuremist and Prime 586 I've been under the impression that the Featuremist compilation contains part 1 and 3 of Prime 586, and the Touch Sampler 2 contains part 2. I don't have Touch Sampler 2, but according to the track listing of my Featuremist compilation, Featuremist contains part 1 and 2. My question is, is the parts-numbering "incorrect" on Featuremist? In other words, does Video 586 roughly follow the structure: Featuremist #1 + Touch Sampler + Featuremist #2 or Featuremist #1 + Featuremist #2 + Touch Sampler Also, the Featuremist I have is issued as a regular Maxell cassette, and in a plastic pouch together with a booklet. I have a full scan of a cassette-sleeve (similar artwork to the booklet) for Featuremist. Was the compilation re-released as a regular cassette without the plastic pouch and booklet? Or was Featuremist released in another country? Thanks for your help, T. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 13:12:20 EST From: GaoBest@aol.com Subject: Re: (Fac33) Age Of Consent/Temptation - Live in 1984 - BBC Radio 6 Wow - so it wasn't from 8-25-84 Saturday Live? Just curious... x Mike In a message dated 12/26/03 6:54:45 AM, nickwking@ntlworld.com writes: << On Christmas Eve, BBC Radio 6 played two songs from an unknown gig in 1984 (some people on here will probably be able to tell which gig!) of New Order - - Age Of Consent and Temptation. You can hear the gig for a week from this link - http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/music/dream_ticket.shtml - select the 'Listen Now' button where it says 'CAN plus support' and fast forward to roughly 30 minutes in, and enjoy! >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 16:53:25 -0800 (PST) From: "Hardy, Joe" Subject: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #61 Not sure anyone has replied to this already as I get the digest version, but dang, Nicolas, lighten up, bro. -1 never said it was legal, he only said he thinks we'll be ok. I bet everyone on here already knows that copying copyrighted material is illegal. I just hope nobody on here forwards any of these emails to the thought police. I, for one, am grateful for -1's work. Joe > From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" > I'm no angel, but which country has laws where it is > ok of trading > copyrighted material as long as you don't sell it? > > C'mon -1, you know it's illegal, so is mp3 sharing > (and we don't sell > them)... > > Grey market, such as live recordings, is something, > even if illegal is > tolerated, but nevertheless illegal.. > > As I said, I sure am no angel on that matter, and > I've done my share of bad > things in the past, but please, don't let them think > it's ok as long as they > don't sell it. > > I'd say it's ok as long as you POSSESS the items on > those CDs... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:31:14 -0600 From: "-1" Subject: (Fac33) [reply] -> _possession_ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 15:04:06 -0500 From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" Subject: RE: (Fac33) [update] -> _international_2____distribution_list_info_241203____ >Grey market, such as live recordings, is something, even if illegal is >tolerated, but nevertheless illegal.. what about promo mixes? those are on there also.. and another thing, i've also included my own 'edits', and 're-creations' of tracks, what about those? >I'd say it's ok as long as you POSSESS the items on those CDs... of course, you are correct about many of the issues you brought up.... but in some cases, it is illegal to convert YOUR OWN TRACKS from one format to the other...so if something happens to your original, you're out of luck... if your tape/vinyl/cd breaks..to bad for you, buy another one.....oh, its an out of print release? too bad again... that's why these laws don't make sense.. just because someone says its a law, doesn't mean that its right, or that we should follow it (i'm ONLY talking about music laws here, and NOT anything else)... so in that case.... i'm only sending it those people that have all those releases.. and since they're all such big 'new order' fans, i'll just take their word for it that they own those releases... later | || | | || ne gative 1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:48:14 -0600 From: "-1" Subject: (Fac33) [update] -> _international_2_distribution____261203____ 'how does it feel' [update] hey no'ers, ok, i'm closing off the requests for distribution.... we've got plenty of people now representing many of the other countries i left off (including canada.. which i should have thought of, since i lived there for 13 years).... anyways, just a few more things: 1) security/privacy - --------------------------- i will maintain a list of the people involved...this is a private issue...no addresses or other contact information will be available to everyone or in any public manner.. 2) requests - ---------------------------- i will announce the requests soon, from others that cant copy it.....split these up, and give the main people the information... if you are distributing them, i will send you all the information personally... 3) copies - ---------------------------- i think i'm going to originally limit the number of copies made per person to 3 or 4 (if possible), that way there won't be a huge burden on people to copy them....there may be one exception to this...the first master duplicator will be responsible for more... also, lets wait and see how many actual requests are made during the next couple of weeks... 4) art - ---------------------------- ...this will be private also.. and downloadable only to those that request it...that way, whoever wishes to print their own..(or get someone to do it for them)..can do it for themselves at whatever quality/resolution they wish... ********************** IMPORTANT NOTE ********************** finally, i hate to keep mentioning this...but if i see even one copy of this sold/distributed for money/ or in any questionable manner that i'm not comfortable with... this whole project will be stopped, and even more drastic measures will be taken... i know it sounds draconian, but i don't want to jepordize future projects (ie: the 25disc set for 'recycle') because of people that want to profit, or take advantage of the hospitality of others... ok, now that thats out of the way... i just want to thank everyone for the support, and willingness to help out.... i'm looking forward to hearing comments from all of you.. hopefully we will complete this project soon... have a great new year, later | | | | | ||| ne gative 1 'the perfect kiss' ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:04:57 -0600 From: "-1" Subject: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ [reply2] hey mr leblanc, remember this? >>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:58:31 -0400 >>From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" >>Subject: (Fac33) New Order Anthology Volume 3...! >>I guess some of you were expecting it, I guess so! >>The Volume 3 of the New Order Anthology is on its way and should be >>ready >>for shipment at the same time than the other two first CDs, but this >>one isn't strictly New Order, it has: >>1 - Price of the CD alone is 25$ US or 35$ CAN like the others, + >>shipping (5$ in Americas and 10$ Overseas) >>2 - Price of the CD if you already asked for the 3rd CD.. it's FREE, >>I'm sending you that >>CD with your order (15$ US was the price asked for the 3rd CD without >>any design, but it will have the design on it) >>3 - Price if you already ordered the 2 other CDS: >>3a - If you ask me to hold your shipment until I get your new order >>(no word game for that one), the price is 20$, shipping is considered as >>paid for your shipment, so you save 10$ how generous of you... >>Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 16:33:10 -0400 >>From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" >>Subject: (Fac33) Also... >>We have 2 CD sets of the first print of the CDs, there is 4 tracks >>that >>have been replaced because of small relative problems (except one, BM >>Razormaid which had 3 mins of silence before the end), and the songs >>aren't in order as the new CD set. >>We are willing to sell those misprint to those who think 25$ per CD >>is too expensive, the price is 35$ for BOTH CDs, no artwork done, just the >>simple CDr... Since there is only 2 of them, email me to be sure you I >>reserve it for you, I know there is 2 people who were interested, email me if you >>still want them. and this? >>Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 13:02:02 -0400 >>From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" >>Subject: (Fac33) Sorry to bother you with this but... >>I have only one left of those, these are the Anthologies I & II, first >>print, with songs not at the same place, some extra dubs that are now >>on >>part III, and 1 bad file. I'm selling them as they are, without a >>artwork >>for 20$ BOTH, shipping included! If anyone is interested, let me >>now... hmmm...sounds rather illegal to me also.. From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" Subject: RE: (Fac33) [update] -> _international_2____distribution_list_info_241203____ >I'm no angel, but which country has laws where it is ok of trading >copyrighted material as long as you don't sell it? >C'mon -1, you know it's illegal, so is mp3 sharing (and we don't sell >them)... i guess you didn't think you were doing anything illegal either? >>Grey market, such as live recordings, is something, even if illegal is >>tolerated, but nevertheless illegal.. that didn't seem to stop you from selling bootlegs directly on the ceremony mailing list either? >>Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:13:36 -0400 >>From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" >>Subject: (Fac33) New Order items to sell... >>I have the following items to sell: >>New Order - Confused Dreams (Live Bootleg) >>All recorded in 1983, from 2 different shows. Sound quality? Fair, >>it's a CD but you can clearly see it's from a tape recording. >>Price asked: 35$ US + shipping. Pretty rare I can see since there is >>very few people having it, I only found ONE so far beside me that didn't seem to bother you.. but what do you think about this? >>Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 03:42:52 -0400 >>From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" >>Subject: (Fac33) New Order Anthology's First Year Anniversary >>Special!! - NEW CD! "the rarest of New Order" >>Special Offer >>============= >>For the 1st year of the New Order Anthologies, I decided to finally >>answer to one of the >>most popular request I had. It's a special product for all person who >>doesn't have the New Order Anthologies, here's: >>=========================== >>=>the rarest of New Order<= >>=========================== >>The Best of New Order Anthologies >>10 Audio Tracks >>38 Audio Data Files >>2 Digital Video Clips >>All on ONE CD! hmm....looks illegal to me.. >As I said, I sure am no angel on that matter, and I've done my share of bad >things in the past, but please, don't let them think it's ok as long as they >don't sell it. and finally i guess this doesn't apply to videos either? >>Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:48:35 -0400 >>From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" >>Subject: (Fac33) Notes. >>So that was, really, the last time you will read from me on this >>matter, the >>web site will vanish on September 1st, and I suppose then the video >>anthologies will be ready. (BTW, I think I will change this video >>anthology name, anyone have original ideas for the video collection of all Joy >>Division/New Order/Electronic/Monaco/SubSub(!) videos?) i'm sure i can find plenty more things YOU overcharged people for.... later | | | || | || ne g ative 1 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 03:59:37 -0300 From: almanso Subject: Re: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ ok, so what is your point? to see who did it "more" illegal of both? come on, drop the bullshit! you know what you=B4re doing and that it=B4s illegal. period. so does nic. but i don=B4t judge you, i simply won=B4t participate. nobody is an angel and we all are grown ups enough to know what are we doing. i thought you were doing it right uploading stuff in the past for free. but when there=B4s money involved always ends bad. hope it doesn=B4t, though, because i was a beneficiate of your kindness once. i wish you the best of lucks. sincerely. alejo > [reply2] >=20 > hey mr leblanc, >=20 > remember this? >=20 >>> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:58:31 -0400 >>> From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" >>> Subject: (Fac33) New Order Anthology Volume 3...! >=20 >>> I guess some of you were expecting it, I guess so! >=20 >>> The Volume 3 of the New Order Anthology is on its way and should be >>> ready >>> for shipment at the same time than the other two first CDs, but this >>> one isn't strictly New Order, it has: >=20 >>> 1 - Price of the CD alone is 25$ US or 35$ CAN like the others, + >>> shipping (5$ in Americas and 10$ Overseas) >=20 >>> 2 - Price of the CD if you already asked for the 3rd CD.. it's FREE, >>> I'm sending you that >>> CD with your order (15$ US was the price asked for the 3rd CD without >>> any design, but it will have the design on it) >=20 >>> 3 - Price if you already ordered the 2 other CDS: >>> 3a - If you ask me to hold your shipment until I get your new order >>> (no word game for that one), the price is 20$, shipping is considered a= s >>> paid for your shipment, so you save 10$ >=20 > how generous of you... >=20 >>> Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 16:33:10 -0400 >>> From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" >>> Subject: (Fac33) Also... >=20 >>> We have 2 CD sets of the first print of the CDs, there is 4 tracks >>> that >>> have been replaced because of small relative problems (except one, BM >>> Razormaid which had 3 mins of silence before the end), and the songs >>> aren't in order as the new CD set. >=20 >>> We are willing to sell those misprint to those who think 25$ per CD >>> is too expensive, the price is 35$ for BOTH CDs, no artwork done, just = the >>> simple CDr... Since there is only 2 of them, email me to be sure you I >>> reserve it for you, I know there is 2 people who were interested, email= me > if you >>> still want them. >=20 >=20 > and this? >=20 >>> Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 13:02:02 -0400 >>> From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" >>> Subject: (Fac33) Sorry to bother you with this but... >>> I have only one left of those, these are the Anthologies I & II, first >>> print, with songs not at the same place, some extra dubs that are now >>> on >>> part III, and 1 bad file. I'm selling them as they are, without a >>> artwork >>> for 20$ BOTH, shipping included! If anyone is interested, let me >>> now... >=20 > hmmm...sounds rather illegal to me also.. >=20 >=20 > From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" > Subject: RE: (Fac33) [update] -> > _international_2____distribution_list_info_241203____ >=20 >> I'm no angel, but which country has laws where it is ok of trading >> copyrighted material as long as you don't sell it? >=20 >> C'mon -1, you know it's illegal, so is mp3 sharing (and we don't sell >> them)... >=20 > i guess you didn't think you were doing > anything illegal either? >=20 >=20 >>> Grey market, such as live recordings, is something, even if illegal is >>> tolerated, but nevertheless illegal.. >=20 > that didn't seem to stop you from selling > bootlegs directly on the ceremony mailing > list either? >=20 >>> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:13:36 -0400 >>> From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" >>> Subject: (Fac33) New Order items to sell... >=20 >>> I have the following items to sell: >>> New Order - Confused Dreams (Live Bootleg) >=20 >>> All recorded in 1983, from 2 different shows. Sound quality? Fair, >>> it's a CD but you can clearly see it's from a tape recording. >=20 >>> Price asked: 35$ US + shipping. Pretty rare I can see since there is >>> very few people having it, I only found ONE so far beside me >=20 > that didn't seem to bother you.. >=20 > but what do you think about this? >=20 >>> Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 03:42:52 -0400 >>> From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" >>> Subject: (Fac33) New Order Anthology's First Year Anniversary >>> Special!! - NEW CD! "the rarest of New Order" >=20 >>> Special Offer >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 >>> For the 1st year of the New Order Anthologies, I decided to finally >>> answer to one of the >>> most popular request I had. It's a special product for all person who >>> doesn't have the New Order Anthologies, here's: >=20 >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> =3D>the rarest of New Order<=3D >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> The Best of New Order Anthologies >=20 >=20 >>> 10 Audio Tracks >>> 38 Audio Data Files >>> 2 Digital Video Clips >=20 >>> All on ONE CD! >=20 > hmm....looks illegal to me.. >=20 >=20 >> As I said, I sure am no angel on that matter, and I've done my share of = bad >> things in the past, but please, don't let them think it's ok as long as > they >> don't sell it. >=20 > and finally i guess this doesn't apply to videos either? >=20 >>> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:48:35 -0400 >>> From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" >>> Subject: (Fac33) Notes. >=20 >>> So that was, really, the last time you will read from me on this >>> matter, the >>> web site will vanish on September 1st, and I suppose then the video >>> anthologies will be ready. (BTW, I think I will change this video >>> anthology name, anyone have original ideas for the video collection of = all > Joy >>> Division/New Order/Electronic/Monaco/SubSub(!) videos?) >=20 > i'm sure i can find plenty more > things YOU overcharged people > for.... >=20 >=20 > later >=20 > | | | || | || > ne g ative 1 >=20 > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:59:23 -0800 From: Sam Habash Subject: Re: (Fac33) Age Of Consent/Temptation - Live in 1984 - BBC Radio 6 On Fri, Dec 26, 2003 at 01:12:20PM -0500, GaoBest@aol.com wrote: > Wow - so it wasn't from 8-25-84 Saturday Live? Just curious... > x > Mike No, indeed it is from Saturday Live aka Rock Around The Clock A part of the confusion could be because it was both broadcast on TV and simulcast on FM. See http://www.cerysmatic.clara.net/Factory/index.html?tv4.html - --Sam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 03:59:12 EST From: GaoBest@aol.com Subject: Re: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ In a message dated 12/27/03 9:16:42 PM, rajg@nol.net writes: << i'm sure i can find plenty more things YOU overcharged people for.... >> Please do - this is fun! And it's good to expose the hypocrisy that occurs... We should also forward the email to the RIAA. While we're at it, let's go after WIM, and that may lower the overall "value" of ebay items as one possible result. I've always been opposed to people who charge money for cdrs. xox Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:40:54 -0000 From: "Mark Reed" Subject: Re: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ >I've always been opposed to people who charge money for cdrs. Quite right too. I've changed my opinion on this in the past few years : if you charge more than the cost of the CDR and postage you're ripping people off. M ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 14:34:42 -0600 From: "Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T)" Subject: RE: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ [reply 2.03.2b] > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Reed [mailto:mr.markreed@virgin.net] > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 5:41 AM > > >I've always been opposed to people who charge money for cdrs. > > Quite right too. I've changed my opinion on this in the past > few years : if > you charge more than the cost of the CDR and postage you're > ripping people off. Because of the short life-span? !-) Seriously kids, there's no need to dig up old dirt and start the mud-slinging. We all know what's illegal and not, and most everyone has done something illegal. How many haven't been speeding? Simply because one may think it's moral, doesn't make it legal. Every New Order site out there is illegal because they contain copyrighted artwork, photos, and/or lyrics. The copyright may not be enforced for various reasons, but it's still illegal use. I'm not saying that the "proper" Int'l or Recycle projects shouldn't go on, but these days I would be very low-key when announcing a (no matter how moral, still illegal) 25-CD set of the back-catalogue... And I refuse to buy those overcharged DVDs on eBay... I'll support the band when they release an official DVD. T. "the saint" Ivarsson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 15:50:07 EST From: GaoBest@aol.com Subject: Re: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ and more offers It isn't a matter of digging up old dirt - it's a matter of refuting someone's hypocrisy. Did Nick really need to talk about the legal issues of sharing music, when he has already participated in the sale of CDRs in the past - on this very mailing list? That's the hypocrisy, and Raggy was only pointing this out. If Nick didn't sling mud first (probably from jealousy because he isn't involved with this superior project), then none of this would have happened. I have nothing against NOOL or WIM, but I still have fun with this stuff. I really miss the way those two used to flame each other on this list, even if it wasn't nice (I'm sure Warren was totally fed up with it). It's wrong, but I got pleasure from it, so that's all that really counts, right? :-) To further the murky legal stuff, I have made various offers of live/etc New Order stuff in the past. Here are some more: 12-30-98 JPRS (23 min b/c with interview & live songs) 2-6-85 Glasgow Barrowlands (Malcolm Beaton version - not Dave Jones) 9-12-86 Glasgow Barrowlands (Malcolm Beaton version - not Dave Jones) note: Malcolm used different mic set up - he used ECM909LT, whereas Dave uses Audio Technica mics - there is a difference, but it's minimal, as both tapers were fucking great/fantastic/professional. Criminy, all us old tapers/traders are getting fucking old, some of my taper friends are closer to 50 than 40 now! Sam has asked me for the 10-4-86 RAH (Nodnol) gig, and this should be a GREAT gig as it was taped by one of New Order's friends, standing with the sound engineers at the mixing desk of the venue. So I'll probably offer this as a "weed" at some point, once I can get my act together, simply because it's different from Dave's copy (mics are ECM929LT), plus there still aren't too many NO gigs out there that were taped by New Order's friends (ie, not fans). I *totally* forgot about this version that I have. xox Mike In a message dated 12/28/03 12:35:44 PM, tivarsson@lucent.com writes: << Seriously kids, there's no need to dig up old dirt and start the mud-slinging. We all know what's illegal and not, and most everyone has done something illegal. How many haven't been speeding? Simply because one may think it's moral, doesn't make it legal. Every New Order site out there is illegal because they contain copyrighted artwork, photos, and/or lyrics. The copyright may not be enforced for various reasons, but it's still illegal use. I'm not saying that the "proper" Int'l or Recycle projects shouldn't go on, but these days I would be very low-key when announcing a (no matter how moral, still illegal) 25-CD set of the back-catalogue... And I refuse to buy those overcharged DVDs on eBay... I'll support the band when they release an official DVD. >> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 13:19:59 -0800 From: Sam Habash Subject: Re: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ and more offers On Sun, Dec 28, 2003 at 03:50:07PM -0500, GaoBest@aol.com wrote: > I have nothing against NOOL or WIM, but I still have fun with this stuff. I > really miss the way those two used to flame each other on this list, even if > it wasn't nice (I'm sure Warren was totally fed up with it). It's wrong, but I > got pleasure from it, so that's all that really counts, right? :-) The desire to be an observer of the backbiting that occurs among competing camps of followers should have some long German phrase named after it. I will admit to being a sucker of following that and other sorts of gossip, but I want to avoid getting myself into the middle of that or future conflicts. I'm sure I'm not the only one. > To further the murky legal stuff, I have made various offers of live/etc New > Order stuff in the past. Here are some more: > > 12-30-98 JPRS (23 min b/c with interview & live songs) > 2-6-85 Glasgow Barrowlands (Malcolm Beaton version - not Dave Jones) > 9-12-86 Glasgow Barrowlands (Malcolm Beaton version - not Dave Jones) > note: Malcolm used different mic set up - he used ECM909LT, whereas Dave > uses Audio Technica mics - there is a difference, but it's minimal, as both > tapers were fucking great/fantastic/professional. Criminy, all us old > tapers/traders are getting fucking old, some of my taper friends are closer to 50 than > 40 now! These would be good for others to kindly accept and than pass on. Mike's stuff is top-notch, folks. This has also whitted my curiosity about other old gigs that were taped by more than one person. I know that 5 FEB 85 Caley Palais, Edinburgh has at least two extant sources (this gig features the debut of Let's Go). I don't have any details regarding who taped them or what equipment was used, though. > Sam has asked me for the 10-4-86 RAH (Nodnol) gig, and this should be a GREAT > gig as it was taped by one of New Order's friends, standing with the sound > engineers at the mixing desk of the venue. So I'll probably offer this as a > "weed" at some point, once I can get my act together, simply because it's > different from Dave's copy (mics are ECM929LT), plus there still aren't too many NO > gigs out there that were taped by New Order's friends (ie, not fans). I > *totally* forgot about this version that I have. Some will know the reason behind this request, besides my desire to hear yet another excellent show from my favorite group. Take care, - --Sam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:11:33 -0800 (PST) From: Chad Wang Subject: (Fac33) Thieves Like Us - Live in New York 1983 I've found this CD, and I was wondering if anyone knew anything about it...i.e. if it's bogus New Order release or what. It's live in New York 1983 and is made by a France label called Pinup Records? It has a weird half naked lady on the cover and some guy on the back. The tracks are: 1. your silent face 2. hurt 3. confusion 4. leave me alone 5. dreams never end 6. thieves like us 7. (i can't remember this one) 8. ceremony 9. blue monday It sounds alright on a quick first scan through it. any thoughts? thanks, chad __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:15:29 EST From: GaoBest@aol.com Subject: Re: (Fac33) Thieves Like Us - Live in New York 1983 Without knowing this CD, I'm guessing it's 7-7-83 Paradise Garage, but I don't buy or deal with bootleg CDs, and thus can't be sure. x Mike In a message dated 12/28/03 4:12:10 PM, wangcsd@yahoo.com writes: << I've found this CD, and I was wondering if anyone knew anything about it...i.e. if it's bogus New Order release or what. It's live in New York 1983 and is made by a France label called Pinup Records? It has a weird half naked lady on the cover and some guy on the back. The tracks are: 1. your silent face 2. hurt 3. confusion 4. leave me alone 5. dreams never end 6. thieves like us 7. (i can't remember this one) 8. ceremony 9. blue monday It sounds alright on a quick first scan through it. any thoughts? thanks, chad >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:58:05 +0000 From: David Little Subject: (Fac33) Joy Division box set Hi, Just to let people know - I got my copy of the Joy Division box set this morning. A word of warning - Don't bother buying it! It only comes with 2 Cds - the ones which have already been released (Bains Douches and Preston), and NOT the Amsterdam concert as listed on Amazon. The poster's very small, as you might imagine, and the t-shirt is huge and just says "Refractured" with no mention of Joy Division! So, probably not worth it, especially if you already have Bains Douches and Preston. If you're really desperate for a copy Amazon should have one extra as I'm going to return mine! Cheers and a happy new year to all! David - -- David Little tel: 020 8858 3549 | mob: 0776 596 5655 email: dl@littled.net web: www.littled.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 08:41:41 -0800 From: Sam Habash Subject: Re: (Fac33) Joy Division box set On Mon, Dec 29, 2003 at 10:58:05AM +0000, David Little wrote: > Hi, > > Just to let people know - I got my copy of the Joy Division box set this > morning. A word of warning - Don't bother buying it! It only comes with > 2 Cds - the ones which have already been released (Bains Douches and > Preston), and NOT the Amsterdam concert as listed on Amazon. The > poster's very small, as you might imagine, and the t-shirt is huge and > just says "Refractured" with no mention of Joy Division! Interesting, as others have reported the third CD had been snuck in there but with two-second gaps! Amsterdam does deserve an official release, but this certainly wasn't it. - --Sam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 08:53:27 -0800 From: Sam Habash Subject: Re: (Fac33) Thieves Like Us - Live in New York 1983 Indeed, it's 7-7-83 Paradise Garage NYC. Track 7 is almost certainly Everything's Gone Green. I guess you have a variant of what's listed on: http://www.worldinmotion.net/neworder/discography/bootlegslp&cd/c/ceremony83.htm This writeup is based on a tape copy of the 'Ceremony' boot, but I think I have another version somewhere that needs to be listened to. There's a 'Hawkeye' LP issue and some Italian job on CD...I don't have either so I'm not going to speculate on them or how they "relate" to yours besides noting WIM gives the same tracklisting. Some random notes here about the gig in question: http://www.new-order.net/no/gigs/nogigs83.html#NO-830707 A couple of my fav Barney quips are here: "Sorry to keep you waiting, we're just waiting for the sequencer to load up. We're not sorry really, I don't give a shit at all. *I* don't, anyway." and "Seldom...seldom have I ever met an audience more lethargic that we are...very quiet here in New York, aye. Aren't we all Joy Division fans? Sussed you out, eh?" (not sure on the wording of the last sentence, however) - --Sam On Sun, Dec 28, 2003 at 08:15:29PM -0500, GaoBest@aol.com wrote: > Without knowing this CD, I'm guessing it's 7-7-83 Paradise Garage, but I > don't buy or deal with bootleg CDs, and thus can't be sure. > > x > Mike > > > In a message dated 12/28/03 4:12:10 PM, wangcsd@yahoo.com writes: > > << I've found this CD, and I was wondering if anyone knew > anything about it...i.e. if it's bogus New Order > release or what. > > It's live in New York 1983 and is made by a France > label called Pinup Records? It has a weird half naked > lady on the cover and some guy on the back. > > The tracks are: > 1. your silent face > 2. hurt > 3. confusion > 4. leave me alone > 5. dreams never end > 6. thieves like us > 7. (i can't remember this one) > 8. ceremony > 9. blue monday > > It sounds alright on a quick first scan through it. > > any thoughts? > > thanks, chad > >> > > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:08:22 EST From: GaoBest@aol.com Subject: Re: (Fac33) Thieves Like Us - Live in New York 1983 Yeah this was also in a Last Orders fanzine. BTW does anyone here have copies of the earlier issues of Last Orders - I got issues #3 and #5 from John Brown back in 1991. They were great, and I have made copies for people on this list in the past. I'm not sure where I've put my zines or the copy "masters" so I can't make offers right now. xox mike In a message dated 12/29/03 9:54:19 AM, the@new-order.net writes: << "Sorry to keep you waiting, we're just waiting for the sequencer to load up. We're not sorry really, I don't give a shit at all. *I* don't, anyway." >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:54:46 -0600 From: "Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T)" Subject: (Fac33) eschreamer again I've been told that there is a US Reprise in-house CDR for Blue Monday 95 (dated June 2001) with the following tracklisting: 6:29 Blue Monday (plutone remix) 5:39 Blue Monday (starwash remix) 8:14 Blue Monday (hardfloor dub) 7:30 Blue Monday (manuela remix) 8:26 Blue Monday (andrea remix) 5:22 Blue Monday (brain remix) 3:47 Blue Monday (plutone edit) 4:13 Blue Monday (hardfloor edit) 7:25 Blue Monday (hawtin love.com mix) 4:06 True Faith (oakenfold edit) 7:41 True Faith (tall paul eschreamer dub 7:44 True Faith (tall paul eschreamer dubbier) The BM mixes are the ones we've seen on the regular releases. The Hawtin Love.com mix is most likely the Richie Hawtin Mix from the compilation From Manchester With Love.net (I will get a confirmation on this later). The Oakenfold Edit is the Perfecto Radio Edit. Even though the CD sleeve says "From CD Source" (scan will be available in the next update of the Discography), the Eschreamer mixes are clearly from vinyl. The Eschreamer Dub is the same as the one on CreamLive (albeit longer). The Eschreamer Dubbier has "I feel so extraordinary" and "Morning sun" repeated over and over. I don't know what the Eschreamer Mix sounds like (Antoine?), but I suspect that the Mix and Dubbier are one and the same. T. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:44:10 -0600 From: "-1" Subject: (Fac33) [update] -> ___international_2___requests_301203______ 'how does it feel' [update] hi no'ers, the wait is almost over, after 1 year of preparation, 'international 2' is in its final stages... the master copies have been made, and are being checked and distributed right now.. i'm glad to announce that you can now sign up to get it: ********************************************** NOTE : DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MAILING LIST OR FORUM, I WILL NOT RESPOND TO THOSE PEOPLE THAT DO. PLEASE SEND THE REQUEST TO MY PERSONAL EMAIL: rajg@nol.net ********************************************** requests will be taken for a few weeks, and then will be CLOSED. (note that this is subject to change, depending on how many requests are made)... - ----------------------------------------------- what happens after you make a request? - ----------------------------------------------- 1) i will assign you to a distributor, based on your mailing address THAT YOU SEND TO ME.. optimally it will be someone from your country or near to you... 2)******IMPORTANT****************************** currently, YOU NEED TO PREPARE A SELF-ADDRESSED STAMPED ENVELOPE, once i have the person assigned to you...and mail it to them (usually a padded envelope, along with 4 x 80min CD-Rs).... NOTE : If you want to make your own arrangements, you may do so yourself, as far as covering costs, media, packaging, etc... 3) due to the complexity, and cost of distributing artwork, it will be available either via download, or through email.....once again, if you want to make your own arrangements, you can do so.. 4) the package will be mailed out to you (please give your distributors courtesy about the time it takes)..remember, this is being done as a VOLUNTEER effort, and their generous time to do this also.. 5) i would like to request that people refrain from making trades until people have received their copies.... 6) lastly, i would really like everyone to actively participate in this project, by posting to the list, or to me what they like (or dont like)....and especially thoughts about the songs you haven't heard before... which is the whole point of the project. the music of new order.. i am looking to the future, as this is a preliminary to the 'recycle' box-set project [25-30 discs, projected in 2004] i look forward to your replies, and any questions, concerns, or ideas that you have... later | | | || | | | ne gativ e 1 'the kiss of death' ------------------------------ End of ceremony-digest V2003 #62 ******************************** ------- + For information on subscribing/unsubscribing and the digest archives, + see the Ceremony web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to .