From: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org (ceremony-digest) To: ceremony-digest@monkey.org Subject: ceremony-digest V2004 #1 Reply-To: ceremony@monkey.org Sender: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org Errors-To: owner-ceremony-digest@monkey.org Precedence: bulk ------- + Ceremony list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + See the above site for subscribing/unsubscribing and back issues. ------- ceremony-digest Tuesday, January 6 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 001 (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #62 Re: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #62 bootlegs legality and NYC (Fac33) bootlegs legality (Fac33) [reply3] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ (Fac33) [long:reply] -> _featuremist_and_prime_586_ RE: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ RE: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ and more offers Re: (Fac33) [reply3] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ (Fac33) [update] -> ___international_2___requests_311203______ RE: (Fac33) [long:reply] -> _featuremist_and_prime_586_ ADV: Attention All Staff and Personnel: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _featuremist_and_prime_586_ (Fac33) RE: [reply2] -> _featuremist_and_prime_586_ (Fac33) ACIDplanet New Order Remix Contest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:16:35 -0600 From: "J. Van" Subject: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #62 > ********************** > finally, i hate to keep > mentioning this...but if > i see even one copy of this > sold/distributed for money/ > or in any questionable > manner that i'm not > comfortable with... I hate to be cynical but I can almost guarantee you that someone, somewhere will take this and sell it on Ebay in a few months.... so beware. All it takes is a single person to ruin it for everyone. On a similar note , theres nothing worse than seeing that a concert that you personally recorded in the past end up as a bootleg CD for sale for $20 in a NYC record store. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:05:00 -0800 (PST) From: happenstance Subject: Re: (Fac33) Re: ceremony-digest V2003 #62 bootlegs legality and NYC - --- "J. Van" wrote: >On a similar note, theres nothing worse than seeing >that a concert that you personally recorded in the >past end up as a bootleg CD for sale for $20 in a NYC >record store. well... it might be worse to be in a band and see your music end up as a bootleg CD for sale for $20 in a NYC record store... i kid... i kid... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:26:02 -0800 (PST) From: dj dust Subject: (Fac33) bootlegs legality > >that a concert that you personally recorded in the > >past end up as a bootleg CD for sale for $20 in a > NYC especially as Ebay don't seem to give a sh!t these days and let people get away with murder! ===== homepage: http://www.djdust.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 http://search.yahoo.com/top2003 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 20:11:02 -0600 From: "-1" Subject: (Fac33) [reply3] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ [reply3] hi alejo, while i respect your opinion, and those that have issues with this project and myself.. i just want to clarify something.. Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 03:59:37 -0300 From: almanso Subject: Re: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ >ok, so what is your point? my point was, nic knew he did illegal things in the past, so why is he telling me what to do? >i thought you were doing it right uploading stuff in the past for >free. distributing mp3 files is STILL ILLEGAL, in fact its WORSE.. because the quality of the files don't deteriorate, and many, many more people can access them.. so why do you think it was okay then? what if the mp3 files were 320kbps, and converted to wav file and put on a cd, wouldn't that be the same thing? you were participating in illegal activities also.. >but when theres money involved always ends bad. hope it doesnt, >though, because i was a beneficiate of your kindness once. i wish you the >best of lucks. sincerely. >alejo what money? there is NO MONEY. THIS IS A FREE PROJECT (except for shipping or blanks)... as i've said many, many times before.. NO ONE IS MAKING ANY PROFIT IN ANY WAY OR THE PROJECT WILL BE STOPPED. later | | || | || neg ative 1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 20:39:29 -0600 From: "-1" Subject: (Fac33) [long:reply] -> _featuremist_and_prime_586_ [reply] hi mr t, i've addressed this issue in the past, (and also issues with other versions).. see : http://monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/digests/v2003.n017 and, about the technical details here: http://monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/digests/v2003.n020 but got no detailed or clarifying replies.. Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 11:14:41 -0600 From: "Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T)" Subject: (Fac33) Featuremist and Prime 586 >I've been under the impression that the Featuremist compilation contains part 1 and 3 of Prime >586, and the Touch Sampler 2 contains part 2. I don't have Touch Sampler 2, but according to >the track listing of my Featuremist compilation, Featuremist contains part 1 and 2. >My question is, is the parts-numbering "incorrect" on Featuremist? In other words, does Video 586 >roughly follow the structure: > Featuremist #1 + Touch Sampler + Featuremist #2 >or > Featuremist #1 + Featuremist #2 + Touch Sampler i'm going to repost my thoughts and information below: 'prime 586' [query] hey no'ers, ok, i've finally dug up my tape, the 'featuremist' compilation with the original versions of 'prime 586'... however, there's many questions about this (i've put my notes below the tracks): consulting 1) new order discography and worldinmotion.net both have this : - -------------------------------------- Featuremist December 1982 CS: UK 1982 (Touch T01) Prime 5-8-6 (part 1) no time given >> my note: >> on side a) time is 6:50 Prime 5-8-6 (part 2) no time given >> my note: >> on side b) time is 13:29 , shouldn't this be part 3? >> or are my times/tracks mixed up? - ----------------------------------------------- Touch Sampler 2 December 1996 CD: UK 1996 (Touch T_ZERO_2) 6:57 Prime 5-8-6 (part 2) Various artists. Much ahead of its time, a 23 minute track recorded for the opening of the Hacienda in Manchester in 1982, and a blueprint for "Blue Monday": it was published in 2 parts on the first Touch release, Feature Mist. This is the missing middle section. >> my note: >> i don't have this, however, if this is the >> real part 2, the 3 parts would be longer >> than 23 minutes.... - ----------------------------------------------- going to neworderonline.com : - ----------------------------------------------- UK Cassette (Touch T01) Track Song Band Version Time Notes Audio Video 1. 586 New Order Prime 5-8-6 (Part 1) ?:?? >> my note : time is 6:50 2. 586 New Order Prime 5-8-6 (Part 3) 6:57 >> my note : once again, do i have my times/versions >> mixed up? i thought this was the 13:29 version - ----------------------------------------------- UK CD (Touch T_ZERO_2) Track Song Band Version Time Notes Audio Video 9. 586 New Order Prime 5-8-6 (Part 3) 6:57 Labeled "Video 586.3" Release Notes From Touch's website: "For the first time on CD - New Order's Video 586, a blue print for 'Blue Monday'" >> does this mean that part 2 never got released? >> or is it labelled incorrectly??? - ----------------------------------------------- finally, there's this: - ---- A Factory Outing (Compilation) [Dec 1983] VHS: UK 1983 (Factory FACT 71) Prime 5-8-6 6:36 - ----- my note : i'm not sure which version this is, since i haven't compared it yet.. also, on a good note, the transfers from tape are actually decent quality.. it's going to be awhile before i can figure out the edit points for the cd version of video 586, to re-create them... does anyone have a clearer idea of what is going on with the versions? - ------------------------------- [technical data] -> _prime586_(versions)_ [technical data] ok no'ers, after listening to the cd version of 'prime586', i've made several comparisons to all the versions on tape/video, etc.. but first of all...here's more information on the video, from the factory discography: - ----------------------------- FACT 71 VARIOUS A Factory Outing Oct 83 VHS: UK 1983 (Factory FACT 71V) [PAL/NTSC] BETA: UK 1983 (Factory FACT 71B) 2:45 {Hacienda Construction Footage} * 6:37 NEW ORDER - Your Silent Face 3:09 JAMES - Stutter 3:03 STOCKHOLM MONSTERS - Life's Two Faces 4:36 52nd STREET - The Rapp 3:43 A CERTAIN RATIO - Back to the Start 3:08 A CERTAIN RATIO - Showcase 4:05 SWAMP CHILDREN - You've Got Me Beat 4:29 DURUTTI COLUMN - The Beggar 5:17 THE WAKE - Uniform 4:48 SECTION 25 - Warhead 5:47 QUANDO QUANGO - Go Exciting 3:06 {Hacienda Venue Footage} ** * Instrumental primitive of NEW ORDER - 5-8-6 (Prime 5-8-6) used for intro Hacienda construction footage. ** Instrumental mix of 52nd STREET - Cool As Ice used for outro Hacienda venue footage. - - All tracks live at The Hacienda Club, Manchester. - - The packaging says in big numerals "51" / "71", indicating the previous point (see also FAC 51). - - Later releases on IKON with sticker stating: "Special Notice: Ikon regrets that The Wake and Quando Quango soundtracks have had to be removed due to insistance of Island Music Ltd." here are the findings: it appears that some of the video versions have combined the audio perhaps(?) as the total time is then 2:45 + ?:??(3:51) to make the full total.. for the video footage version i have is : 6min:36 this version IS NOT THE SAME as prime586(part3) also.... ===================================================== the next set of listings is the time indexes used for that version compared to the FULL version on the TOUCH cd.. (ie: which parts it was edited from) NOTE : the fade in/outs are APPROXIMATE, and there are voice samples on the cassette versions prime586(video) vs prime586(cd) - --------------------------------------------------- prime586(video) - duration 6min:36sec prime586(video) prime586(cd) - ------------------------------------------ start 0:00.000 4:36.688 end 6:36.399 11:13:087 fade-in 0:00.000 - 0:02.786 fade-out 6:22.014 - 6:36.399 ====================================================== NOTE : ok, and to finalize it, here are the comparisons to the cassette versions from the TOUCH sampler.. (i'm still not sure which is part1 or part3 though).. prime586(part1) vs prime586(cd) ====================================================== prime586(part1) - duration 14m:03sec prime586(part1) prime586(cd) - ------------------------------------------ start 0:02.925 8:21.504 end 14:03.735 22:05:239 fade-in 0:02.925 - 0:04.133 **** NOTE : LEFT AND RIGHT CHANNELS REVERSED ON CASSETTE **** ====================================================== prime586(part3) vs prime586(cd) ====================================================== prime586(part3) - duration 6min:58sec prime586(part3) prime586(cd) - ------------------------------------------ start 0:00.000 0:05.572 end 6:57.962 7:03:534 fade-out 6:29.259 - 6:57.386 [right channel only] ====================================================== >Also, the Featuremist I have is issued as a regular Maxell cassette, and in a plastic pouch >together with a booklet. I have a full scan of a cassette-sleeve (similar artwork to the >booklet) for Featuremist. >Was the compilation re-released as a regular cassette without the plastic pouch and booklet? Or >was Featuremist released in another country? >Thanks for your help, >T. your package is identical to mine.. i have it with the pouch and the booklet.. i'm pretty sure it came from the UK, and don't know if it came from another country.. i hope you can use this information.. later | | || ||| | | ne gativ e 1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 23:29:31 -0500 From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" Subject: RE: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ Oh my.. I should check my Ceremony folder more often... 1997 pal, price of CDR was 20$ each, plus, I didn't even have a CD-Writer then, so I paid somebody to do the copies. Believe it or not, I didn't do profit with those, and I spent a lot of time doing shipping and handling. So saying I was overcharging 7 years later, maybe you should think a little... CD + stickers for CD + artwork laser printed and everything, it cost a lot to do these, and nobody complained about the price back then! As I said, "I've done by share of bad things", and that was what I meant (except selling my original Confused Dreams bootleg, I don't see why you even included that one).. I stopped producing the anthologies when Recycle was announced, because the idea behind the anthologies was to gather a collection of out of print material, then the production was carried by someone else, and that was the end of "my bad things", and that was 7 years ago... I seriously don't see why you wasted your time attacking me, I just made a point that you should stop saying to people it's not illegal when it is, I never said what I did back then was legal neither, but I stopped the minute I saw this could cause harm to the band (remember, in 1997, nobody was expecting them to go back together), Recycled never came, but I didn't do any of those afterwards for sure. Plus I had my share of problems due to those and collaboration with the labels, which led to many problems with someone at Reprise, and it was all fixed then, so I don't think anyone would care of a few sets of mp3 cds were distributed back in 1997, most of them were vinyl and tape recording gather **** FROM PEOPLE OF THIS LIST **** and delivered exclusively *** TO PEOPLE OF THIS LIST ****, so it was a complete public project and many people contributed.. Many people can vouch for this... Anyways, as I said, I seriously don't see why you went into a personal attack about this, I only said to you that you shouldn't try to convince people it's legal when it's not... back in 1997, I thought doing a little compilation of out of print stuff wouldn't harm anyone, hence why I did it, I stopped the minute I saw it could cause money loss to the band, and I stuck to my word. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ceremony@monkey.org [mailto:owner-ceremony@monkey.org] On Behalf Of -1 Sent: December 28, 2003 12:05 AM To: ceremony-digest@monkey.org Subject: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ [reply2] hey mr leblanc, remember this? >>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:58:31 -0400 >>From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" >>Subject: (Fac33) New Order Anthology Volume 3...! >>I guess some of you were expecting it, I guess so! >>The Volume 3 of the New Order Anthology is on its way and should be >>ready >>for shipment at the same time than the other two first CDs, but this >>one isn't strictly New Order, it has: >>1 - Price of the CD alone is 25$ US or 35$ CAN like the others, + >>shipping (5$ in Americas and 10$ Overseas) >>2 - Price of the CD if you already asked for the 3rd CD.. it's FREE, >>I'm sending you that >>CD with your order (15$ US was the price asked for the 3rd CD without >>any design, but it will have the design on it) >>3 - Price if you already ordered the 2 other CDS: >>3a - If you ask me to hold your shipment until I get your new order >>(no word game for that one), the price is 20$, shipping is considered as >>paid for your shipment, so you save 10$ how generous of you... >>Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 16:33:10 -0400 >>From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" >>Subject: (Fac33) Also... >>We have 2 CD sets of the first print of the CDs, there is 4 tracks >>that >>have been replaced because of small relative problems (except one, BM >>Razormaid which had 3 mins of silence before the end), and the songs >>aren't in order as the new CD set. >>We are willing to sell those misprint to those who think 25$ per CD >>is too expensive, the price is 35$ for BOTH CDs, no artwork done, just the >>simple CDr... Since there is only 2 of them, email me to be sure you I >>reserve it for you, I know there is 2 people who were interested, email me if you >>still want them. and this? >>Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 13:02:02 -0400 >>From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" >>Subject: (Fac33) Sorry to bother you with this but... >>I have only one left of those, these are the Anthologies I & II, first >>print, with songs not at the same place, some extra dubs that are now >>on >>part III, and 1 bad file. I'm selling them as they are, without a >>artwork >>for 20$ BOTH, shipping included! If anyone is interested, let me >>now... hmmm...sounds rather illegal to me also.. From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" Subject: RE: (Fac33) [update] -> _international_2____distribution_list_info_241203____ >I'm no angel, but which country has laws where it is ok of trading >copyrighted material as long as you don't sell it? >C'mon -1, you know it's illegal, so is mp3 sharing (and we don't sell >them)... i guess you didn't think you were doing anything illegal either? >>Grey market, such as live recordings, is something, even if illegal is >>tolerated, but nevertheless illegal.. that didn't seem to stop you from selling bootlegs directly on the ceremony mailing list either? >>Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:13:36 -0400 >>From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" >>Subject: (Fac33) New Order items to sell... >>I have the following items to sell: >>New Order - Confused Dreams (Live Bootleg) >>All recorded in 1983, from 2 different shows. Sound quality? Fair, >>it's a CD but you can clearly see it's from a tape recording. >>Price asked: 35$ US + shipping. Pretty rare I can see since there is >>very few people having it, I only found ONE so far beside me that didn't seem to bother you.. but what do you think about this? >>Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 03:42:52 -0400 >>From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" >>Subject: (Fac33) New Order Anthology's First Year Anniversary >>Special!! - NEW CD! "the rarest of New Order" >>Special Offer >>============= >>For the 1st year of the New Order Anthologies, I decided to finally >>answer to one of the >>most popular request I had. It's a special product for all person who >>doesn't have the New Order Anthologies, here's: >>=========================== >>=>the rarest of New Order<= >>=========================== >>The Best of New Order Anthologies >>10 Audio Tracks >>38 Audio Data Files >>2 Digital Video Clips >>All on ONE CD! hmm....looks illegal to me.. >As I said, I sure am no angel on that matter, and I've done my share of bad >things in the past, but please, don't let them think it's ok as long as they >don't sell it. and finally i guess this doesn't apply to videos either? >>Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:48:35 -0400 >>From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" >>Subject: (Fac33) Notes. >>So that was, really, the last time you will read from me on this >>matter, the >>web site will vanish on September 1st, and I suppose then the video >>anthologies will be ready. (BTW, I think I will change this video >>anthology name, anyone have original ideas for the video collection of all Joy >>Division/New Order/Electronic/Monaco/SubSub(!) videos?) i'm sure i can find plenty more things YOU overcharged people for.... later | | | || | || ne g ative 1 - ------- + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 23:42:55 -0500 From: "Nicolas LeBlanc" Subject: RE: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ and more offers Again, I didn't overcharge anybody, it was the price I had to pay for everything back then, as I said *I* didn't have a cd-rom burner back then, so I had no money for this, plus please check the prices of CDR back in 1997, not counting the laser labels for the CDs and the laser artwork... Today it seems fool as I know I could produce those for 5$ a piece without any problem, but back then, I was charged 20$ per CD if I remember right, I had to pay a guy for his "time" and it was taking 74 minutes to burn 1 CD (it was only 1X drives back then!)... Easy to say people tried to rip off people with a 7 years perspective and CDR now at less than 1$... As I said, it was a collective project, I ended up doing them because it was my idea, I have absolutely no shame in saying that I did this, most people know that as a fact, I won't deny it, I stopped as soon as the New Order activity came back and the Recycle project was in the air. Anyways, I feel like repeating myself... Ceremony Digest Archives are available for everyone to read, it's easy to extract just a part but back 90% of the material on those CDs were not encoded by me for sure, it's from many people on this list...! Now yes, 3 years later I did my part to help New Order by creating NewOrderOnline, and I paid a lot of money into this (not counting the effort I did in the programming of this website), and I never, oh yes NEVER, received a cent for this, and I never expected to. However NewOrderOnline is now self sufficient and paid by its members who pay for the hosting fees.. everyone's happy, and yes, there is copyrighted material on this website, videos, pictures and everything, and it's well know to the band, but they are well aware that this is only to their advantage, otherwise they would not supply us with contests items and everything as they did over the last 3 years... - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ceremony@monkey.org [mailto:owner-ceremony@monkey.org] On Behalf Of GaoBest@aol.com Sent: December 28, 2003 3:50 PM To: tivarsson@lucent.com; ceremony-digest@monkey.org Subject: Re: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ and more offers It isn't a matter of digging up old dirt - it's a matter of refuting someone's hypocrisy. Did Nick really need to talk about the legal issues of sharing music, when he has already participated in the sale of CDRs in the past - on this very mailing list? That's the hypocrisy, and Raggy was only pointing this out. If Nick didn't sling mud first (probably from jealousy because he isn't involved with this superior project), then none of this would have happened. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 02:28:18 -0300 From: almanso Subject: Re: (Fac33) [reply3] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ thank you for respecting my opinion. even though i don=B4t have anything against you or your project. i respect all you=B4re doing. i only said we all know what we do and what we risk for. period. i clearly said i=B4m no angel and i say it now. i just wanted you to say that this is illegal and you sai= d it. so did Nic. now i=B4m cool. ;) best of lucks alejo > [reply3] >=20 > hi alejo, >=20 > while i respect your opinion, > and those that have issues > with this project and > myself.. >=20 > i just want to clarify something.. >=20 > Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 03:59:37 -0300 > From: almanso > Subject: Re: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _legal_issues_and_the_past_ >=20 >=20 >> ok, so what is your point? >=20 > my point was, nic knew he did illegal > things in the past, so why is he telling > me what to do? >=20 >> i thought you were doing it right uploading stuff in the past for >> free.=20 >=20 > distributing mp3 files is STILL ILLEGAL, in fact its WORSE.. > because the quality of the files don't deteriorate, and > many, many more people can access them.. >=20 > so why do you think it was okay then? >=20 > what if the mp3 files were 320kbps, and > converted to wav file and put on a cd, > wouldn't that be the same thing? >=20 > you were participating in illegal > activities also.. >=20 >> but when theres money involved always ends bad. hope it doesnt, >> though, because i was a beneficiate of your kindness once. i wish you th= e >> best of lucks. sincerely. >=20 >> alejo >=20 > what money? >=20 > there is NO MONEY. >=20 > THIS IS A FREE PROJECT > (except for shipping or blanks)... >=20 > as i've said many, many times before.. >=20 > NO ONE IS MAKING ANY PROFIT IN ANY WAY > OR THE PROJECT WILL BE STOPPED. >=20 > later >=20 > | | || | || > neg ative 1 > ------- > + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ > + To talk to a person, send mail to . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 23:58:50 -0600 From: "-1" Subject: (Fac33) [update] -> ___international_2___requests_311203______ [update] hello no'ers, i just wanted to clarify some issues, and bring up a few final points... 1) privacy/security - ------------------------------------ i am asking for your mailing address to help in figuring out who will send you the discs... NO ONE ELSE WILL HAVE ACCESS TO THEM BESIDES 1 OTHER PERSON.. 2) distribution issues - ------------------------------------ once again, i just want to caution anyone, this is NOT BEING DONE FOR SALE OR PROFIT, and any signs of it being re-distributed or auctioned,etc.. will STOP future projects and slow this one down....also, if you see/hear any infractions of this, let me know.. ************************************ 3) requests - ----------------------------------- NOTE - IF YOU MAKE A REQUEST, PLEASE SEND IN YOUR MAILING ADDRESS, OTHERWISE THERE IS NO WAY FOR ME TO ASSIGN A DISTRIBUTOR TO YOU i've already received several responces that DONT INCLUDE A MAILING ADDRESS....if you didn't send it already, please reply again and include it... 4) mailing list - ----------------------------------- from here on out, i will maintain a PRIVATE LIST of people who wish to be involved in this... a) so that we don't clutter up the normal mailing list b) we can discuss any further issues amongst ourselves.. of course, all public discussion of tracks, thoughts about the project, etc...are completely welcome in public... but anything else related, will be discussed privately... - --------------------------------- 5) last minute distribution adds - --------------------------------- i've gotten some last minute people who requested to be added to the distributors list.. that's fine..i will include you..at this point, i'm still not sure how many requests will be made... but i'm going to try to maintain a 1 distributor - 4 person balance..as i don't want things to get out of hand, or take up peoples time.. i would rather more people have time to listen to the music.... you will receive further information from me about distribution issues... - --------------------------------- thanx once again for your time and consideration... and finally.... for those that have submitted their information, thank you.. you don't have to do anything now, just prepare a package for the cds.... in the next few weeks, i will prepare a list, and give it to the distributors who should contact you, and give you further instructions.... you've already done the hard part... enjoy your new year! later || | || | | || || ne ga tive 1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:09:03 -0600 From: "Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T)" Subject: RE: (Fac33) [long:reply] -> _featuremist_and_prime_586_ > -----Original Message----- > From: -1 [mailto:rajg@nol.net] > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 9:39 PM > > i've addressed this issue > in the past, (and also > issues with other versions).. Yes, I noticed this when I went through my archived info. I have some problem following your e-mail. What is your opinion on my theory below? Featuremist contains the first segment (labeled "Video 586 - 1") and the third segment (labeled "Video 586 - 2") of Video 586. Touch Sampler 2 contains the second segment (labeled "Video 586"). > ----------------------------------------------- > Touch Sampler 2 > > >> my note: > >> i don't have this, however, if this is the > >> real part 2, the 3 parts would be longer > >> than 23 minutes.... Since I don't have a tapeplayer (nor turntable, I'm 100% digital) here I can't check what's going on. But I don't see why the full Video 586 has to be the three segments neatly lined up. Perhaps there are overlapping segments, making the continuous segmentation 22:25. > finally, there's this: > ---- > A Factory Outing (Compilation) > [Dec 1983] > > VHS: UK 1983 (Factory FACT 71) > Prime 5-8-6 6:36 > ----- Incorrect, the timing for the footage is 2:45. Maybe it's a mixup with YSF on the same video. > from the factory discography: > ----------------------------- > FACT 71 VARIOUS > A Factory Outing > Oct 83 > > VHS: UK 1983 (Factory FACT 71V) [PAL/NTSC] > BETA: UK 1983 (Factory FACT 71B) > > 2:45 {Hacienda Construction Footage} * > > here are the findings: > > it appears that some of the video versions have > combined the audio perhaps(?) as the total time > is then 2:45 + ?:??(3:51) to make the full total.. > for the video footage version i have is : 6min:36 Where do you get the 6:36 from? > this version IS NOT THE SAME as prime586(part3) > also.... Could it be some section from the full Video 586? T. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jan 04 02:31:27 GMT From: "Admin" Subject: ADV: Attention All Staff and Personnel: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --A_DE..ABF_5576.05_001 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Attention All Staff, Personnel, and Students: You Must Respond By 5 P.M. Tuesday, January 6, 2004 Through a special arrangement, Avtech Direct is offering a limited allotment of BRAND NEW, top of-the-line, name-brand desktop computers at 50% off MSRP to all who respond to this message before 5 P.M., Tuesday, January 6, 2004 All desktop computers are brand-new packed in their original boxes, and come with a full manufacturer's warranty plus a 100% satisfaction guarantee. These professional grade Desktops are fully equipped with 2004 next generation technology, making these the best performing computers money can buy. Avtech Direct is offering these feature rich, top performing Desktops with the latest Intel technology at an amazing price to all who call: 1-800-884-9510 by 5 P.M. Tuesday, January 6, 2004 The fast and powerful AT-2400 series Desktop features: * Intel 2.0Ghz Processor for amazing speed and performance * 128MB DDR RAM, Upgradeable to 1024 * 20 GB UDMA Hard Drive, Upgradeable to 80 GB * 52X CD-Rom Drive, Upgradeable to DVD/CDRW * 1.44 Floppy disk drive * Next Generation Technology * ATI Premium video and sound * Full Connectivity with Fax modem/Lan/IEE 1394/USB 2.0 * Soft Touch Keyboard and scroll mouse * Internet Ready * Network Ready * 1 Year parts and labor warranty * Priority customer service and tech support MSRP $699 ........................................ Your Cost $347 How to qualify: 1. You must be a medical Student Staff Member 2. All desktop computers will be available on a first come first serve basis. 3. You must call 1-800-884-9510 by 5 P.M. Tuesday, January 6, 2004 and we will hold the desktops you request on will call. 4. You are not obligated in any way. 5. 100% Satisfaction Guaranteed. Call Avtech Direct 1-800-884-9510 before 5 P.M. Tuesday, January 6, 2004 If you wish to be removed, go to https://www.techadvice.com/remove.htm - --A_DE..ABF_5576.05_001-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 23:51:15 -0600 From: "-1" Subject: (Fac33) [reply2] -> _featuremist_and_prime_586_ [reply2] hi mr t, - -----Original Message----- From: Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T) [mailto:tivarsson@lucent.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 11:09 AM To: -1; ceremony-digest@monkey.org Subject: RE: (Fac33) [long:reply] -> _featuremist_and_prime_586_ >I have some problem following your e-mail. What is your opinion on my theory below? >Featuremist contains the first segment (labeled "Video 586 - 1") and the third segment (labeled >"Video 586 - 2") of Video 586. Touch Sampler 2 contains the second segment (labeled "Video 586"). ok, i'm getting very confused by the usage of 'video', and the word 'prime', are they interchangeable? i guess when i used 'video', i need to say i'm talking about the actual 'video' version to avoid confusion... >Since I don't have a tapeplayer (nor turntable, I'm 100% digital) here I can't check what's going >on. But I don't see why the full Video 586 has to be the three segments neatly lined up. Perhaps >?there are overlapping segments, making the continuous segmentation 22:25. no, as i mentioned in the technical segment of the post...even matching up the segment start and finishing points, still does NOT lead to full prime 586..there are still gaps.. prime586-1 -> duration 14m:03sec [0:00---------------------------14:03] prime586(cd) [0:00----[8:21]--------------------------22:05] [<----------------overlap----------->] prime586-3 -> - duration 6min:58sec [0:00---------------------------------6:58] prime586(cd) [0:00--[0:05]--------------------------------7:03]------------[22:05] [<----------------overlap---------------->] as you can see, there is a gap between the 7:03 and the 8:21 mark on the cd, if you are using the tape versions as your guide... also, see the end of this post for notes on the 'video' version.. NOTE : I dont have access to prime586-2 on the 'touch sampler' cd, so i cant speculate on which segment it encompasses... >> from the factory discography: >> ----------------------------- >> FACT 71 VARIOUS >> A Factory Outing >> Oct 83 >> >> VHS: UK 1983 (Factory FACT 71V) [PAL/NTSC] >> BETA: UK 1983 (Factory FACT 71B) >> >> 2:45 {Hacienda Construction Footage} * >> >> here are the findings: >> >> it appears that some of the video versions have >> combined the audio perhaps(?) as the total time >> is then 2:45 + ?:??(3:51) to make the full total.. >> for the video footage version i have is : 6min:36 >Where do you get the 6:36 from? ok, i don't own this videotape, so i can't so for sure if this is correct or not... but one reference that i used is here: - ---------- http://www.neworderonline.com/MediaList.aspx?MediaTypeID=2 look for this : Nov 12, 2000 New Order Prime 586 6:35 Video 586 if you prefer, this is Stephen Morris playing sounds with his Apple 2c. A Factory Video Real Media HQ ============= you need realplayer to watch/listen to it.. it lists the time as 6:35. i don't know if this video was editted or combined to make up the full time listed, as the last few minutes are blank video... > this version IS NOT THE SAME as prime586(part3) > also.... >Could it be some section from the full Video 586? >T. once again, i'm confused by your terminology.. the version used in the 'video' seems to be another segment from the full version on cd... note this for the video version or 'video 586'.. prime586-3 -> - duration 6min:58sec [0:00---------------------------------6:37] prime586(cd) [0:00--[4:36]--------------------------------[11:13]------------[22:05] [<----------------overlap------------------>] you might need to use a monospace font, for these 'ascii' graphics to line up correctly... later || | | || | | ne ga tive 1 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:58:43 -0600 From: "Ivarsson, Torbjorn (T)" Subject: (Fac33) RE: [reply2] -> _featuremist_and_prime_586_ > -----Original Message----- > From: -1 [mailto:rajg@nol.net] > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 12:51 AM > > ok, i'm getting very confused by the usage of > 'video', and the word 'prime', are they > interchangeable? I think so. I went back and looked at the actual track-listing of the items and they say "Video 586". I'm not sure where the "Prime 586" comes from - perhaps someone on the list knows. > i guess when i used 'video', i need to > say i'm talking about the actual 'video' > version to avoid confusion... Well you could say the Video 586 video version... :) > no, as i mentioned in the technical segment of > the post...even matching up the segment start > and finishing points, still does NOT lead to > full prime 586..there are still gaps.. > > prime586-1 -> duration 14m:03sec > [0:00---------------------------14:03] > prime586(cd) > [0:00----[8:21]--------------------------22:05] > [<----------------overlap----------->] > > > prime586-3 -> - duration 6min:58sec > [0:00---------------------------------6:58] > prime586(cd) > [0:00--[0:05]--------------------------------7:03]------------[22:05] > [<----------------overlap---------------->] Ok, makes sense now (nice illustration). It'd be nice to have the same analysis for part 2(3) from the Touch Sampler. Assuming that the Touch Sampler version covers the gap in the middle (which they claim that it does), almost the entire Video 586 would be covered then. > note this for the video version or 'video 586'.. > > prime586-3 -> - duration 6min:58sec > [0:00---------------------------------6:37] > prime586(cd) > [0:00--[4:36]--------------------------------[11:13]---------- > --[22:05] > [<----------------overlap------------------>] Hmm, come to think of it, 6:58 is suspiciously similar to the 6:57 of the Touch Sampler track... Mystery solved? Thank, T. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 03:29:29 -0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=F8bert=E3o_Primitive_Notion?= Subject: (Fac33) ACIDplanet New Order Remix Contest Hello! OK, it was a long time ago, but I was browsing AcidPlanet's site for the Crystal Remix Contest tonight and I had a surprise. I saw other remixes added to the "runners up" list. Maybe they were added in 2001, but I just didn't see it. I have saved the original list announced 12/12/2001: - ---------- (the original one) ------- Grand Prize Winner: ara simonian - with new order crystal - listen Runners Up: Changeling - with Crystal (changeling mix) - listen 303dreams - with New Order - Crystal (303Dreams Remix) - listen Darren Ottery - with CRYSTAL (break easy dub) - listen intervox - with Crystal (Intervox Seasons Mix) - listen - ---------- (the changed one) ------- Grand Prize Winner: new order crystal by ara simonian - listen Runners Up: Crystal (changeling mix) by Changeling - listen New Order - Crystal (303Dreams Remix) by 303dreams - listen CRYSTAL (break easy dub) by Darren Ottery - listen Crystal (Intervox Seasons Mix) by intervox - listen Crystal - Trip Mix by Ranger Rick - listen New Order - Crystal (Telekom Remix) - Runner Up by Telekom - listen Fin Remix by Fin - listen Andy Slater Remix by Andy Slater - listen (Telekom, Fin and Andy Slater submitted their entries directly to www.neworderweb.com.) - -------------------------- So it was added 4 remixes after the first list.... As it is written, the last three were submitted directly to neworderweb.com. And the "Trip Mix by Ranger Rick"? Was it added after the final results? Very strange! Does anyone remember when this "new" list has appeared? Does anyone have any related information? Robertão ------------------------------ End of ceremony-digest V2004 #1 ******************************* ------- + For information on subscribing/unsubscribing and the digest archives, + see the Ceremony web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/ + To talk to a person, send mail to .