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Subject: ceremony-digest V2001 #14
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ceremony-digest Friday, February 16 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 014
RE: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 songs
RE: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 songs
Re: FW: FW: (Fac33) Top 5 other songs
(Fac33) Re: PIL
(Fac33) Songs that are better than anything by New Order -- possible?
Re: (Fac33) Temptation
Re: (Fac33) Top 5 other songs
Re: (Fac33) Temptation
(Fac33) Re: Songs that are better than anything by New Order -- possible?
Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 albums
RE: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 albums
RE: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 albums
Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 albums
RE: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 albums
Re: (Fac33) Top 5 other songs (OT)
Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 off-topic threads
Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 off-topic threads
Re: (Fac33) Top 5 other songs (OT)
Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 off-topic threads
Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 off-topic threads
Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 off-topic threads
Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 off-topic threads
Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 off-topic threads
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:38:50 -0000
From: "blue ruin"
Subject: RE: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 songs
>Oh there's more bands that need to get added, definately. I doubt take
>issue with anything on the list below but I'd add (at least):
>
>Gang of Four
Well there ya go!
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:39:57 -0000
From: "blue ruin"
Subject: RE: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 songs
forgot to say... Magazine is one of my all-time fav. bands... :o)
>Magazine
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-ceremony@monkey.org [mailto:owner-ceremony@monkey.org]On
> > Behalf Of blue ruin
> > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 10:25 AM
> > To: ceremony@monkey.org
> > Subject: Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 songs
> >
> >
> > I adore Television (Marquee Moon is a must-have album)... and
> > Suicide --
> > just plain "wow."
> >
> > So, according to you, where does Gang of Four fit in all of
> > this??? They're
> > a fucking great band...
> >
> > Anne
> >
> > >The Au Pairs
> > >Young Marble Giants
> > >Television
> > >Buzzcocks
> > >The Slits
> > >Jonathan Richman and The Modern Lovers
> > >Suicide
> > >Devo
> > >Mission of Burma
> > >Richard Hell and the Voidods
> > >Cabaret Voltaire
> > >Patti Smith
> > >Throbbing Gristle
> > >Talking Heads
> > >Stiff Little Fingers
> > >DNA
> > >
> > >
> > >Virtually every indie and punk group of the last 20
> > >years owes a debt - whether aesthetic or sonic or
> > >just in attitude - to these bands.
> > >
> > >
> > >charlie D.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- Super User wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Don't forget Pere Ubu's first 3 records: Modern
> > > > Dance,
> > > > Dub Housing, and New Picnic Time; incredibly edgy,
> > > > dissonant, beautiful, and ultimately seminal pieces
> > > > of
> > > > work in that postpunk time of 1978-1980. Like JD
> > > > the
> > > > bass carries the melody much of the time. Like Metal
> > > > Box their sound swerved towards art-punk, reggae and
> > > > found sounds. Pere Ubu's career sort of went like
> > > > Wire's: made 3-4 great records early on, broke up,
> > > > then reformed to make less interesting (IMO) more
> > > > commercial pop records in the 80s. But don't let
> > > > that
> > > > deter you. GO OUT AND GET THESE EARLY PERE UBU
> > > > RECORDS. THEY ARE ESSENTIAL. To this day it boggles
> > > > my mind that a major label (Chrysalis) signed a band
> > > > as important as this and released their records.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > charlie D.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- John Frye wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Section 25's Always Now is very close to Metal
> > > > Box,
> > > > > but probably coincidentally
> > > > > so, as much of the key material on Always Now was
> > > > > recorded only a couple of
> > > > > months before Metal Box. Both bands were led by
> > > > > basslines at this point and
> > > > > the vocals were pretty free reign. Fantastic
> > > > stuff.
> > > > >
> > > > > -john frye
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -------
> > > > > + Ceremony mailing list web page:
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> > > > > + To talk to a person, send mail to
> > > > .
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Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:47:47 -0000
From: "blue ruin"
Subject: Re: FW: FW: (Fac33) Top 5 other songs
>
>All sports are boring and repetitive
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Now I'm gonna stop posting for a while...
Anne
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:48:51 -0800
From: ajwells@att.net
Subject: (Fac33) Re: PIL
> From: "Scott Taylor"
> Subject: Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 songs
>
> I have the fortune of just recently discovering p i l (the first couple
> years of it, anyway). It seems fresh and new. It's funny how (at least to
> me) that the first few swaths of post-punk music '78-'79 seem much more
> current that what is actually going on in music right now. There's no sense
> of urgency anymore. Music from 20 years ago speaks more about what's going
> on in the world today than anything on the charts right now. Gang Of Four,
> Wire, p i l, Joy Division, Bauhaus, Berlin Bowie, Kraftwerk, The Cure, The
> Jam, The Fall, Eno, and all that shit from the late '70s is speaking volumes
> about what is going on in 2001, in my opinion. These are the artists who
> are forcing me out of my comfortable malaise. Unfortunately I wasn't of an
> age to catch this stuff the first time around, but luckily I'm getting it
> now (and hopefully some others are as well). Maybe I'm daft. Maybe I'm
> mad.
>
Hey I've been spouting this position for decades... the first rush of
stuff to flow through the pipes after the Sex Pistols roto-rootered them
consisted of a dazzling variety of work created by people and artists
from various walks of life who would have never thought about going into
music previously... they had ideas from the world of art and concepts
and they expressed them with an urgency that has not been seen since...
the Gang Of Fours worldview is even more accurate today, with the
individual on the decline and the demographically defined consumer on
the ascension... all of the early GoF records are amazingly fresh and
new sounding today... and of course Metal Box has always sounded like it
was recorded on the moon... I think Ian Curtis said at one point that he
loved the record, but needed weights on his stylus to keep the needle in
the groove...
Will such a movement of music happen today? hmm... I doubt it... people
like Gill/King, Levene and ME Smith would probably not go into music if
they were in their early twenties today... music has been co-opted so
heavily into the consumer culture that even dissent is quickly turned
into a marketing stance...
But we can always hope... I for one am still waiting for bands to use
heavy forms like dub and write strong, contemporary songs in that
form... a la early PIL or even recent Primal Scream...
Aj
www.mp3.com/plenum
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:10:43 -0800
From: fernando
Subject: (Fac33) Songs that are better than anything by New Order -- possible?
At 10:45 PM 2/15/01 +0100, Hana wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: fernando
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 1:39 AM
>Subject: Re: (Fac33) (Fac 33) Top Five etc ...
>
>
> > >There's too many ... it's almost impossible to pick a top five seeing as
> > >it tends to vary depending on situation, mood etc.
> >
> >
> > Yeah, that is true... everyone would agree... where to fit House of Love's
> > LOVE IN A CAR? Anyway, it would be a little easier to think of 5 songs
>that
> > are better than anything New Order has done.... some would not have a
> > problem doing that...
>
>love in a car? in a veeery spaced out mood, i'd say.
>
>i couldn't think of 5 songs better than anything new order's done. it would
>mean there are 5 songs that are absolutely best of all stuff ever written
>after 1950. you could try with "better than neworder average" though.
Well, I am sure that it differs with everyone... but I would find it a bit
of a stretch that there is not even 5 songs better than anything NewOrder
did ... I am not even talking about important songs that subdue our
subjectivity a bit.
Although The Perfect Kiss, to me, is the best thing that New Order did...
it would be something terrible to me if there has been nothing better in
the 16 years since, or even close. To take a stab (in no order), and
keeping it within the same peers (i.e., no Billy Holliday, Frank Sinatra...
etc.):
Soon -- My Bloddy Valentine
Love in a Car -- House of Love
Group 4 -- Massive Attack
Memories -- PiL
I Should Have Known Better -- Wire
Ascension Day -- Talk Talk
It Isn't Forever -- The Field Mice
Cattle and Cane -- The Go Betweens
etc.
Of course, this is a bit academic, like any list... the thing to me is
whether someone is so trapped in fandom to think that there is nothing
better than New Order, which would be indistinguishable from someone that
happens to have a New Order song as the best thing ever, and not being
blinded by fandom.
On another level, there is the part of each of the songs above bringing a
different emotion than The Perfect Kiss... which only Soon comes close in
similarity... but I prefer Soon.
Does anyone think that not having a top 5/10 song by New Order makes you
less of fan? Just curious...
cheers!
- -fernando
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:31:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeremy Herskowitz
Subject: Re: (Fac33) Temptation
1. Plain Song- The Cure
2. Temptation-NO
3. Atmosphere-JD
4. The Ghost in You-PF
5. Once In a Lifetime-Wolfsheim
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 20:39:38 +0100
From: "Hana"
Subject: Re: (Fac33) Top 5 other songs
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Colin Kerr
To:
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:05 AM
Subject: Re: (Fac33) Top 5 other songs
> > yardbirds - stroll on
> > pink floyd - lucifer sam
> > cream - deserted cities of the heart
> > echo &tb - happy death men
> > test dept. - the crusher
> >
> well there's something you don't see everyday...test dept and cream, or
> yardbirds for that matter.
never let your tastes get determined by genre divisions. hehe.
anyway, tomorrow it might be ten years after and eisturzende neubauten.
what else's good by test dept, i've only got the unacceptable face of
freedom, a good night out and totality, dunno what to get next. help?
neworder content... q: can you find traces of industrial in the music of
n.o.?
hana
"let us leave the art critic to strangle his wife and move on to pastures
new."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:49:02 -0000
From: "blue ruin"
Subject: Re: (Fac33) Temptation
Ah shit, I said I wouldn't post again... but...
>1. Plain Song- The Cure
Easily my fav. Cure song with "Primary"...
>5. Once In a Lifetime-Wolfsheim
Wicked, wicked song!!! Didn't know anyone else on this list was into that
kind of stuff (industrial)! :o)
Anne
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:04:16 +0100
From: "Hana"
Subject: (Fac33) Re: Songs that are better than anything by New Order -- possible?
> >i couldn't think of 5 songs better than anything new order's done. it
would
> >mean there are 5 songs that are absolutely best of all stuff ever written
> >after 1950. you could try with "better than neworder average" though.
>
>
> Well, I am sure that it differs with everyone... but I would find it a bit
> of a stretch that there is not even 5 songs better than anything NewOrder
> did ... I am not even talking about important songs that subdue our
> subjectivity a bit.
well, i can't find 5 songs b.t.a.NO.did because i've a tendency to extremely
like (and find to be absolutely the best etc.) at least 50 songs at all
times (maybe 20 permanently), and i can't choose any certain five among them
that would be even better. and among these more-less50 songs there's always
something by new order.
> Of course, this is a bit academic, like any list... the thing to me is
> whether someone is so trapped in fandom to think that there is nothing
> better than New Order, which would be indistinguishable from someone that
> happens to have a New Order song as the best thing ever, and not being
> blinded by fandom.
in fact i never want to claim to be the no 1 fan of any band, nor is any
band ever my single no. 1, it's just with n.o. that there are a couple of
their songs i couldn't ever force myself to drop out of any best-of-all
list.
> Does anyone think that not having a top 5/10 song by New Order makes you
> less of fan? Just curious...
it speaks more of character than "quality of fandom" wether you can make an
exclusive top 5-10 ;-)
hana
the apparent displacement of robbery weapon from firearm to cucumber might
be seen as worthy of encouragement
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:35:17 -0800
From: Mike deWit
Subject: Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 albums
What the hell, the thread that won't die. Cool!!
albums now:
Only Life / feelies
Entertainment! / Gang of Four (someone reminded me --> yeah!)
Mind TPI / Skinny Puppy
Murder Ballads / Nick Cave
Trompe Le Monde / Pixies
something by Beat Happening
something older by Killing Joke
Extricate / Fall
Candy Apple Grey / Husker D=FC
Something Better Change / DOA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:54:36 -0500
From: "Quiroga, Manuel"
Subject: RE: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 albums
my top (not NO) albums (each as a whole unit, not necessarily containing my
favourite songs):
Psychocandy - JAMC
Never Mind the Bollocks - Sex Pistols
London Calling - The Clash
Metal Box - PIL
Tago Mago - Can
Achtung Baby - U2
Marquee Moon - Television
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:28:33 -0500
From: "Scott Taylor"
Subject: RE: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 albums
Are we doing the albums now?
If taken as an entire album, not just songs, just off the top of my head:
DAVID BOWIE - "Lodger"
GANG OF FOUR - "Entertainment"
WIRE - "Pink Flag"
KRAFTWERK - "Radio-Activity"
THE CURE - "Seventeen Seconds"
PUBLIC ENEMY - "It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back"
EELS - "Beautiful Freak"
GARY NUMAN - "Replicas"
LUSK - "Free Mars"
BAUHAUS - "Burning From The Inside"
SPIRITUALIZED - "Pure Phase"
THE RENTALS - "Return Of The Rentals"
AIR - "Moon Safari"
LED ZEPPELIN - Physical Graffiti"
Just off the top of my head, today....
Start 'em, at track one, next thing you know the album's over...
>From: "Quiroga, Manuel"
>To: Ceremony
>Subject: RE: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 albums
>Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:54:36 -0500
>
>my top (not NO) albums (each as a whole unit, not necessarily containing my
>favourite songs):
>
>Psychocandy - JAMC
>Never Mind the Bollocks - Sex Pistols
>London Calling - The Clash
>Metal Box - PIL
>Tago Mago - Can
>Achtung Baby - U2
>Marquee Moon - Television
>-------
>+ Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/
>+ To talk to a person, send mail to .
"Be Seeing You."
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:54:12 -0800
From: John Frye
Subject: Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 albums
Scott Taylor wrote:
> Are we doing the albums now?
>
Apparantly. If my measly apartment was burning right now and i had to quickly
run in and get 10 albums that would have to last me the rest of my life,
thinking fast, i would retreive:
Joy Division - Heart & Soul box (cheating?)
New Order- Substance
Cure- Pornography
Miles Davis -Bitches Brew
Godspeed You Black Emperor! -Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven
Section 25 -Key to Dreams
Metallica -And Justice For All
A Certain Ratio- To Each
New Order- Movement
Lush- Spooky
- -john frye
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:50:22 -0600
From: Chris.delaRosa@luminant.com
Subject: RE: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 albums
bah, albums!
1) depeche mode - black celebration
2) dimitri from paris - a night at the playboy mansion
3) pet shop boys - behaviour
4) blur - the great escape
5) thievery corporation - the mirror conspiracy
6) madonna - the immaculate collection
cant think of any more right now
honorable mentions:
1) soundtrack to judgement night
2) soundtrack to cool world
chris dela rosa . dj salvator
plush . houston, tx
www.pureplush.com . 9192372 (icq)
chris.panthermodern.net . delarosa77 (aim)
..........................................
"subsistance is inexistant."
- skinny puppy, worlock (1990)
"Scott Taylor"
Sent by: owner-ceremony@monkey.org
02/16/01 03:28 PM
To: ceremony@monkey.org
cc:
Subject: RE: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 albums
Are we doing the albums now?
If taken as an entire album, not just songs, just off the top of my head:
DAVID BOWIE - "Lodger"
GANG OF FOUR - "Entertainment"
WIRE - "Pink Flag"
KRAFTWERK - "Radio-Activity"
THE CURE - "Seventeen Seconds"
PUBLIC ENEMY - "It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back"
EELS - "Beautiful Freak"
GARY NUMAN - "Replicas"
LUSK - "Free Mars"
BAUHAUS - "Burning From The Inside"
SPIRITUALIZED - "Pure Phase"
THE RENTALS - "Return Of The Rentals"
AIR - "Moon Safari"
LED ZEPPELIN - Physical Graffiti"
Just off the top of my head, today....
Start 'em, at track one, next thing you know the album's over...
>From: "Quiroga, Manuel"
>To: Ceremony
>Subject: RE: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 albums
>Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:54:36 -0500
>
>my top (not NO) albums (each as a whole unit, not necessarily containing
my
>favourite songs):
>
>Psychocandy - JAMC
>Never Mind the Bollocks - Sex Pistols
>London Calling - The Clash
>Metal Box - PIL
>Tago Mago - Can
>Achtung Baby - U2
>Marquee Moon - Television
>-------
>+ Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/
>+ To talk to a person, send mail to .
"Be Seeing You."
_________________________________________________________________
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- -------
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+ To talk to a person, send mail to .
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 23:11:07 +0100
From: "Michael de Gier"
Subject: Re: (Fac33) Top 5 other songs (OT)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "SUSAN SHERWOOD"
To:
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:16 AM
Subject: (Fac33) Top 5 other songs
> At least someone finally said it. So very true ;)
> From: "blue ruin"
> To: ceremony@monkey.org
> Subject: Re: FW: (Fac33) Top 5 other songs
> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 23:11:28 -0000
> >Not to fan the flames, but then what is a better sport than soccer?
> SEX.
*We have fantastic girls in this mailing list. I wish I met some like them
in real life more often! :-)
dgmichael@inwind.it
www.geocities.com/dgmichael73
My SonicNet Radio:
http://radio.sonicnet.com/mymusiclisten.asp?name=dgmichael
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:24:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Warren Lapham
Subject: Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 off-topic threads
in no particular order:
1) what is your favorite stuff not counting new order stuff?
2) what is your favorite stuff counting only new order stuff?
3) what is your favorite sport?
4) what is your favorite color?
5) who do you hate most on the ceremony list and why do you think they
should shut up?
6) all your base are belong to us.
7) how can you be so stupid?
8) me too.
9) shut up.
honorable mention:
10) can we stay on-topic, please?
yes, i do understand the principle about people's overlapping tastes, and
that the ceremony mailing list gets very lonely--nay, suicidal--when
there's no postings for a few days (well, no, not really), but please do
not assume that everyone wants to read about what you have to say even if
it's not about new order! (and, no, long long threads that take up 3
digests are not OK even if they are designated as being off-topic in the
subject.)
to this end, i am trying to get a "ceremony-talk" list set up (unless
someone beats me to it). so, in the meantime, please show some
self-restraint...this is a list about new order, not a list about their
fans on the internet.
thanks.
- -w.
ps - no personal slights intended here. my apologies if you feel i've
slighted you.
- --
Warren Lapham laps@2350.org
FAXlabel reviews : http://www.2350.org/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:36:04 -0800
From: josh kneedler
Subject: Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 off-topic threads
i've found this thread to be on topic and useful. its NEW ORDER fans
and what they listen to. i feel like i understand more about where
people are coming from knowing what they listen to. i even feel like
i have more of a sense about what the music scene was like in the
early days of new order.
its also pretty cool to have records to look for or mp3s to download
that are almost guaranteed to be worthwhile.
josh
>in no particular order:
>
>1) what is your favorite stuff not counting new order stuff?
>2) what is your favorite stuff counting only new order stuff?
>3) what is your favorite sport?
>4) what is your favorite color?
>5) who do you hate most on the ceremony list and why do you think they
>should shut up?
>6) all your base are belong to us.
>7) how can you be so stupid?
>8) me too.
>9) shut up.
>
>honorable mention:
>
>10) can we stay on-topic, please?
>
>yes, i do understand the principle about people's overlapping tastes, and
>that the ceremony mailing list gets very lonely--nay, suicidal--when
>there's no postings for a few days (well, no, not really), but please do
>not assume that everyone wants to read about what you have to say even if
>it's not about new order! (and, no, long long threads that take up 3
>digests are not OK even if they are designated as being off-topic in the
>subject.)
>
>to this end, i am trying to get a "ceremony-talk" list set up (unless
>someone beats me to it). so, in the meantime, please show some
>self-restraint...this is a list about new order, not a list about their
>fans on the internet.
>
>thanks.
>
>-w.
>
>ps - no personal slights intended here. my apologies if you feel i've
>slighted you.
>
>--
>Warren Lapham laps@2350.org
>FAXlabel reviews : http://www.2350.org/
>
>
>-------
>+ Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/
>+ To talk to a person, send mail to .
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503.222.2242 : http://dreamingamerica.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 22:42:44 -0000
From: "stuart alexander"
Subject: Re: (Fac33) Top 5 other songs (OT)
my top other 5 songs are:
1) people are people/ Depeche Mode
2) Interesting Drug/ Mozza
3) Sail away/ David gray
4) Mudslide/ The Bluetones
5) I am the ressurection/ The Stone Roses
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:45:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Warren Lapham
Subject: Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 off-topic threads
i realize that some people do find these lists useful. but, as i said,
this is a list about new order, _not_ their fans. (unless they are their
own fans, but that's another topic.)
and, as i said, i am working on getting a second list set up. but, until
then, just stay on-topic.
not a broken record, honest,
- -w.
On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, josh kneedler wrote:
> i've found this thread to be on topic and useful. its NEW ORDER fans
> and what they listen to. i feel like i understand more about where
> people are coming from knowing what they listen to. i even feel like
> i have more of a sense about what the music scene was like in the
> early days of new order.
>
> its also pretty cool to have records to look for or mp3s to download
> that are almost guaranteed to be worthwhile.
> josh
>
> >in no particular order:
> >
> >1) what is your favorite stuff not counting new order stuff?
> >2) what is your favorite stuff counting only new order stuff?
> >3) what is your favorite sport?
> >4) what is your favorite color?
> >5) who do you hate most on the ceremony list and why do you think they
> >should shut up?
> >6) all your base are belong to us.
> >7) how can you be so stupid?
> >8) me too.
> >9) shut up.
> >
> >honorable mention:
> >
> >10) can we stay on-topic, please?
> >
> >yes, i do understand the principle about people's overlapping tastes, and
> >that the ceremony mailing list gets very lonely--nay, suicidal--when
> >there's no postings for a few days (well, no, not really), but please do
> >not assume that everyone wants to read about what you have to say even if
> >it's not about new order! (and, no, long long threads that take up 3
> >digests are not OK even if they are designated as being off-topic in the
> >subject.)
> >
> >to this end, i am trying to get a "ceremony-talk" list set up (unless
> >someone beats me to it). so, in the meantime, please show some
> >self-restraint...this is a list about new order, not a list about their
> >fans on the internet.
> >
> >thanks.
> >
> >-w.
> >
> >ps - no personal slights intended here. my apologies if you feel i've
> >slighted you.
> >
> >--
> >Warren Lapham laps@2350.org
> >FAXlabel reviews : http://www.2350.org/
> >
> >
> >-------
> >+ Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/
> >+ To talk to a person, send mail to .
>
> --
> dreaming america : visual media studio
> 503.222.2242 : http://dreamingamerica.com
> -------
> + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/
> + To talk to a person, send mail to .
>
- --
Warren Lapham laps@2350.org
FAXlabel reviews : http://www.2350.org/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:16:06 -0800
From: josh kneedler
Subject: Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 off-topic threads
warren,
i'm just being argumentitive in good fun.
this list engages the thoughts of the fans. now do we as a collective
care about who the individual fans are? if no then all we care about
is getting solid information about new order. if yes then it would
seem logical that we would want to know more about what inspires a
new order fan. i.e. what kind of other music do they listen to.
favorite color? sport? season? i don't care about those things....but
other music is different. maybe there is an unknown band out there
that can make me feel the same way i do when i listen to new order.
now, what is the point of the ceremony-talk list? how are you going
to define what content goes where?
josh
At 5:45 PM -0500 2/16/01, Warren Lapham wrote:
>i realize that some people do find these lists useful. but, as i said,
>this is a list about new order, _not_ their fans. (unless they are their
>own fans, but that's another topic.)
>
>and, as i said, i am working on getting a second list set up. but, until
>then, just stay on-topic.
>
>not a broken record, honest,
>
>-w.
>
>
>
>On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, josh kneedler wrote:
>
>> i've found this thread to be on topic and useful. its NEW ORDER fans
>> and what they listen to. i feel like i understand more about where
>> people are coming from knowing what they listen to. i even feel like
>> i have more of a sense about what the music scene was like in the
>> early days of new order.
>>
>> its also pretty cool to have records to look for or mp3s to download
>> that are almost guaranteed to be worthwhile.
>> josh
>>
>> >in no particular order:
>> >
>> >1) what is your favorite stuff not counting new order stuff?
>> >2) what is your favorite stuff counting only new order stuff?
>> >3) what is your favorite sport?
>> >4) what is your favorite color?
>> >5) who do you hate most on the ceremony list and why do you think they
>> >should shut up?
>> >6) all your base are belong to us.
>> >7) how can you be so stupid?
>> >8) me too.
>> >9) shut up.
>> >
>> >honorable mention:
>> >
>> >10) can we stay on-topic, please?
>> >
>> >yes, i do understand the principle about people's overlapping tastes, and
>> >that the ceremony mailing list gets very lonely--nay, suicidal--when
>> >there's no postings for a few days (well, no, not really), but please do
>> >not assume that everyone wants to read about what you have to say even if
>> >it's not about new order! (and, no, long long threads that take up 3
>> >digests are not OK even if they are designated as being off-topic in the
>> >subject.)
>> >
>> >to this end, i am trying to get a "ceremony-talk" list set up (unless
>> >someone beats me to it). so, in the meantime, please show some
>> >self-restraint...this is a list about new order, not a list about their
>> >fans on the internet.
>> >
>> >thanks.
>> >
>> >-w.
>> >
>> >ps - no personal slights intended here. my apologies if you feel i've
>> >slighted you.
>> >
>> >--
>> >Warren Lapham laps@2350.org
>> >FAXlabel reviews : http://www.2350.org/
>> >
>> >
>> >-------
>> >+ Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/
>> >+ To talk to a person, send mail to .
>>
>> --
>> dreaming america : visual media studio
>> 503.222.2242 : http://dreamingamerica.com
>> -------
>> + Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/
>> + To talk to a person, send mail to .
>>
>
>--
>Warren Lapham laps@2350.org
>FAXlabel reviews : http://www.2350.org/
>
>-------
>+ Ceremony mailing list web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/
>+ To talk to a person, send mail to .
- --
dreaming america : visual media studio
503.222.2242 : http://dreamingamerica.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:30:26 -0600
From: Chris.delaRosa@luminant.com
Subject: Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 off-topic threads
HAH! all your base are belong to us!
chris dela rosa . dj salvator
plush . houston, tx
www.pureplush.com . 9192372 (icq)
chris.panthermodern.net . delarosa77 (aim)
..........................................
"subsistance is inexistant."
- skinny puppy, worlock (1990)
Warren Lapham
Sent by: owner-ceremony@monkey.org
02/16/01 04:45 PM
To: josh kneedler
cc: ceremony@monkey.org
Subject: Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 off-topic threads
i realize that some people do find these lists useful. but, as i said,
this is a list about new order, _not_ their fans. (unless they are their
own fans, but that's another topic.)
and, as i said, i am working on getting a second list set up. but, until
then, just stay on-topic.
not a broken record, honest,
- -w.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:59:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Super User
Subject: Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 off-topic threads
> i've found this thread to be on topic and useful.
> its NEW ORDER fans
> and what they listen to. i feel like i understand
> more about where
> people are coming from knowing what they listen to.
> i even feel like
> i have more of a sense about what the music scene
> was like in the
> early days of new order.
Yes I agree, this banter back and forth about PiL,
Gang of Four, Magazine, et al. has been informative
and illuminating. Records like Metal Box, Thats
Entertainment!, Secondhand Daylight, etc are required
and essential listening even if you don't like punk.
This is seminal stuff here that needs to be heard,
absorbed, analyzed, and thought about. This isn't
Depeche Mode crap, this is serious, cerebral music
that we are discussing here. To stifle it would be do
foster ignorance and keep a lot of uneducated minds
here in the dark.
charlie D.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:16:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Warren Lapham
Subject: Re: (Fac33) the top 6 or 7 off-topic threads
(everyone: please keep replies on this topic address to just me, and
not the whole list. i'd be happy to talk about this with anyone, just
drop me a line. or, maybe, we'll have our first topic for the -talk
list.)
> > i've found this thread to be on topic and useful.
> > its NEW ORDER fans
> > and what they listen to. i feel like i understand
> > more about where
> > people are coming from knowing what they listen to.
> > i even feel like
> > i have more of a sense about what the music scene
> > was like in the
> > early days of new order.
>
> Yes I agree, this banter back and forth about PiL,
> Gang of Four, Magazine, et al. has been informative
> and illuminating. Records like Metal Box, Thats
> Entertainment!, Secondhand Daylight, etc are required
> and essential listening even if you don't like punk.
> This is seminal stuff here that needs to be heard,
> absorbed, analyzed, and thought about. This isn't
> Depeche Mode crap, this is serious, cerebral music
> that we are discussing here. To stifle it would be do
> foster ignorance and keep a lot of uneducated minds
> here in the dark.
i agree that there is potential for worthwhile off-topic discussion, and
that's why -- instead of my usual "quiet, that's off-topic" -- i'm setting
up an "off-topic" list.
however, no matter how you rationalize it, it _is_ off-topic. no matter
how essential any of the music mentioned in the past week on this list is
(new-order-related or not), this is not the "essential listening" list, it
is the new order mailing list.
new order fans come from many different backgrounds, and it's unrealistic
to think that we all have the same taste. people (new order fans
included) don't want to read about music they don't like; they want to
read about music they like, so that's why they subscribe to _this_ list,
not the depeche mode list, not the p.i.l. list, not the factory records
list, not the manchester bands list, not the godspeed you black emperor!
list, not the warren-lapham-likes-new-order-here's-his-favorite-music
list. new order is the _only_ topic that subscribers to this list are all
interested in, and that is the only topic they (all 500 of them) should
hear about here. if subscribers to ceremony want to know more about the
non-new order interests of their fellow listmembers, they should subscribe
to ceremony-talk.
ceremony-talk will be ready within 24 hours, probably sooner. you all
will be the first to know about it.
i'd be willing to wager that it will be more active than ceremony, but
with fewer subscribers.
- -w.
- --
Warren Lapham laps@2350.org
FAXlabel reviews : http://www.2350.org/
------------------------------
End of ceremony-digest V2001 #14
********************************
-------
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+ see the Ceremony web page: http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/
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